Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG

 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:06 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:32 pm
Posts: 4491
Location: North Yorkshire
Sometimes trying something different helps give perspective.

& the Alpha strike against a DC4 WE with a TK weapon will always hurt even if it does have an Inv Sv. So no matter what else is on the table I would playing NetEA DKoK vs NetEA Tyranids always shoot the Dominatrix as my first activation.

To bring up another list - The French have introduced a spacecraft which might be another option for future modifications to the list

_________________
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:19 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:22 am
Posts: 191
As captPiett said, give them so much to focus on that its hard. I ran a nid list yesterday (NetEA) vs varak traitors IG. bombards, 2 full leam companies a war hound with the flamer, etc. Best thing is to wether the storm the best you can and rush forward. I know dom can fall to the DS, but at the least it has a Invuln save, which is something.

I do agree on lictors though. I ran them a few times before even in big squads and they are horrible.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:01 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:19 am
Posts: 14
I had a ton of stuff. I had around 100 units on the table. 1 dom 1 hierodule, 2 harridans, 4 trygons, 5 small swarms with different combination of exocrines, carnifexes and hive tyrants, 1 small swarm with 4 dactylus, 1 lictor swarm, 1 genestealer swarm and 1 biovore swarm.

I got really lucky and still lost horribly this game. I won most initiatives and his shadowswords did no damage the first 2 turns I think. The deathstrike, super heavy tank, tank formation and artillery and planes were just killing everything. My formations in front just lost too many and had too many blast markers to assault 2nd turn into 20+ infantry. If it was units of 6 marines or elves I could of just kept going but there is no way I could beat 20+ infantry in bunkers or hiding behind gorgons after losing half of all my swarms.

He just did so much damage shooting it is unbelievable. First turn I lost close to 750 of my army points in non-replishable units. By third turn everything I had was dead or broken except a unit of 3 left from a small swarm. His gorgon unit did assault and break one unit but everything else was from shooting, most coming from way outside my assault range near the back edge of the table. The problem is no tyranid shooting even hurt 4+ RA or 3+ cover once the dominatrix dies. The dacylus can't even break anything because the infantry squads are 20 plus models and the super heavy formation counts as 9. The other units stayed outside the dactylus range until turn 4 when I killed some calvary finally with them. My shooting back all game maybe killed 4 infantry and 12 calvary and broke 1 superheavy tank which rallied at the end of turn. I did kill a few formations in assaults but as soon as I won an assault I was shot to death.

I am waiting for the guy in our league to go undefeated before I call the kriegs list broken. He is the only undefeated player in the league right now. There is only a few things I can do better next time. Mostly it's just a bad match up. Rock Paper Scissors I lose.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:32 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:22 am
Posts: 191
I would agree NetEA nids are a bit under powered in compairson to many other armies out there. Not by much mind you, but little tweeks could help a lot.

Looked over the EUK nids list and I would argue its on the same level. Some things are better, some worse then NetEA.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:47 am 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:35 am
Posts: 4108
Having played against both the NetEA list has better AV and WE bugs and the extremely powerful spawning+auto rally rules. These make it very difficult to beat - park a big swarm on 2 objectives and then spawn away.

EpicUK list is easier to beat but also easier to win with as the gaunts not counting in assault resolution means it's actually really good in assaults

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:38 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:14 pm
Posts: 60
Location: Valencia - Spain
Hi!

First at all, I am not very experienced playing Epic. In fact I have never played with or against Tyranids, but I have played some games with DKOK. I will try to give you some advice from "the other part".

In my experience,with DKOK the game is focused around the big infantry units. All the other formations are there to support them. Also, usually, the DKOK player lacks of flexibility, meaning that once he has deployed is "easy" to see how he will play the game. With this in mind I think you should be able to locate his "weak" point and press it avoiding as much as possible the other formations.

Some concrete ideas based on the assumption that he will use the same list that you described.

- Avoid WE and Dom. If he is deploying silo + 3 shadowsword…force him to "overwill" your small units (I would mix some carnifex and zoanthropes in the formations to avoid the sniping of the Hive Tyrants)
- Do not try to outnumber him with single formation. Better to have more smaller swarms
- The bunkers (if I am correct) should not be a problem in an assault. Assault them with multiple swarms (Tyrant commander) and with the support or others. I would try to break one big infantry formation per turn
- Forget about the shadowswords and the silo…without WE on the table they will not pay themselves at the end…
- Use the lictors/genestealers to assalut the artillery
- Use the biovores and dactilys to place some BM on the inf (breaking them is not realistic, but placing some BM will even things on assaults) and to break/kill the death riders
- The small tank formations (6 tanks) shouldn't so powerful IMO. Some gargoyles maybe will do the job of entertain them
- Mixing some Zoanthopes in the swarms should add AA cover (enough at least to avoid "free kills")

Summarizing, if you are able to break one of the big infantry formations and kill/neutralize the Leman Russ and the Death Rider you should be able to control the board and win the game. But again, this is all theory and just based in my experience.

Hope it helps!

_________________
Gwydion


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:41 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 2:48 am
Posts: 507
Location: NY, USA
I've been playing g the NetEA Nids list for a bit now, and may be able to offer some help. Also, if you wouldn't mind posting your list, we can give some specific details to help.

Firstly, I've had trouble getting the point values out of lictors and genestealers. It may be my play style, but I find them too fragile for their points compared to other options.

Second, as much as I love the idea of the carnifex, the hausprex offers almost the same benefits, but you gain some ranged attack. I'm also not a fan of adding exocrine to assault swarms. I can see the FF benefit, but I prefer them in their own formation.

Third, as mentioned, make sure there is always multiple AV targets in a swarm. This helps to spread the damage.

Finally, push hard across the board using cover. Its hard to say how easy this may have been without seeing the board, but to reiterate the point, its all about closing for CC. I like to use dactylis, exocrine, and biovores to prep the formations I want to assault. If that's combined with an assault using multiple formations, you stand a good chance even against large infantry formations.

The strength of DKoK is well know, so a lot of lists will share the same struggles. Hope you find some of the assistance you were looking for and best of luck next time!

_________________
Eldar and Orks and Nids, Oh my! (Plus Marines , Tau, and Steel Legion.)

The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:03 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:25 pm
Posts: 7959
Location: Worcester, MA
Rug wrote:
NetEA Nids list is widely considered underpowered


As long as you don't count the people who don't. ::)

I'd be curious how your games go against Matt's DKoK proposal: viewtopic.php?f=74&t=29390

Lists of what you guys are using would help, a report even more. We never playtested the nids against the DKoK (locally it's considered an over-powered kitchen sink) so I can't offer much advice beyond the usual:

Have at least four formations ready to assault turn 2 as you'll likely won't get the strategy roll
Mixed swarms between 250-350 have been the sweet spot here
Take Exos and Dacts swarms to cover as you approach
Stick to cover
Prep and support your assaults

_________________
Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Tyranids 2016-12-02 | Knight World 2017-01-03 | Raven Guard 2.0


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:12 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:22 am
Posts: 191
Here was my list. Using the 2014 Dev Nid list as it was a little more flexable. (Though if I messed up something let me know). It fought agaisnt Vraks Traitors. His list was 2 big infantry units, 3 Miinoutors(sp?) 2 10 tank formations, 1 of leman russ and the other I forget the name, and a warhound. Forget if there was anything else...

It was hard fought but nids won. Here was my list...

S - Swarm Dominatrix + Symboiant 3 Terma 3 horma
M - Swarm 1 Hive 2 Warrior, 6 Guant 6 Horma
M - Swarm 1 Hive 2 Warrior, 6 Guant 6 Horma
Biovore 8 of them
Dactylis 6 of them
Exorine 6 of them
Heradule with both long range weapons
4 Trygons

Trygons were for a turn 3 attack through tunnels. they didnt do much as it took so long to get em. Eventually killed the Artilery Minos he had.

Dom was pretty tanky, and regen saved her life. Thiough she should have more..

The 2 medium swarms were champions. Getting 4 guys back a turn helped in an amazing way. Always picking the Hormagaunts of course for the 3+ melee.

Biovores murdered a whole infantry squad with their range, breaking them in one turn.

Exorines were so so. Took some punishment, but never got in a great spot to deal some damage.

Heradule was just a tank. Never caused much damage, or killed anything really, but it was scarry enough to draw fire as it moved up the board. He got broken early and was 1 away from death. By the time the game was over he was full hp and charging forward.

Postive things was the regen of the grunts and not causing blast markers. Also no penality for moving into terrain helps keep them alive. Your Hive Tyrants make the enemy get the neg to shoot since it stuck to building jumping.

To all the other armies I have played though, this was the hardest one to not only build but play. So as my opnion it needs a wee bit more strength. This is army 6 for me, and a good thing because if I started as Nids as my first I proably wouldnt like Epic.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:41 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:25 pm
Posts: 7959
Location: Worcester, MA
I'd be surprised if you were getting 4 back per turn. If you are, does your opponent know he can cut that in half just by being within 30cm?

_________________
Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Tyranids 2016-12-02 | Knight World 2017-01-03 | Raven Guard 2.0


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:08 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20676
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Bunkers aren't allowed to fire if in an enemy unit's zone of control. This means teleporting scouts (lictors?) can be ised passively, engage something else with them then end up with a scout's ZOC covering the bunker...?

_________________
6mm scale Scifi Plastic Sprues available here!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:20 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:23 am
Posts: 700
Dave wrote:
Rug wrote:
NetEA Nids list is widely considered underpowered


As long as you don't count the people who don't. ::)

I'd be curious how your games go against Matt's DKoK proposal: viewtopic.php?f=74&t=29390


Honestly I think part of what the Original Poster was describing as rock-paper-scissors was actually a game where what is arguably one of the more underpowered lists (count me among the people who think Nids need a buff) facing up against one of the arguably overpowered lists.

The revised DKOK list would definitely help narrow that gap by reducing the power of some formations and increasing some costs etc.
I still think that Nids could also do with a little love though, if anything their rock-paper-scissors matchup is skimmer Eldar.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:47 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:22 am
Posts: 191
Dave wrote:
I'd be surprised if you were getting 4 back per turn. If you are, does your opponent know he can cut that in half just by being within 30cm?


Good point. Turn 1 and 2 yea 4 back for most as anything I would break hed double back. Parts of turn three I might have messed that up. And turn for was just me activating the trygons and he conceded.

Ill have to play em again (possibly weds or sat) and make sure I remember the 30.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:16 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:19 am
Posts: 14
If I had the models I could play something like at 3000 points.

4 smalls swarms, 2 with 4 dactylus each with hive tyrants
4 swarms of 3 trygons with 4 raveners

(or 2 large trygon squads and two lictor blocking shields)

Just sit at the edge of the table with all the dactylus and small swarms hopefully behind line of sight blocking terrain. Pop up all the trygons and raveners 3rd turn and hopefully win initiative. Use the 1 trygon squad to take one of the objective in opponents table half, preferably the one not next to all the bunkers if possible. You can also run your dactylus swarms 60 to take that objective too 3rd turn if there still alive. Use the other 3 trygon squads to attack the blitz. Two might have to shield the other so it can hold the blitz. Although the opponent only has to put 4 formations within 15 cm of the blitz and you can't win as long as there not intermingled. If you have an "open list" and the opponent can ask what you have than I doubt this will work. But its more fun than getting death strike missiled or taking 15 wounds a turn from 3 super-heavy tanks for 500 points. A game would be over in 30 minutes probably so less suffering.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net