Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG

 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:36 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:22 am
Posts: 191
dreykeo wrote:
If I had the models I could play something like at 3000 points.

4 smalls swarms, 2 with 4 dactylus each with hive tyrants
4 swarms of 3 trygons with 4 raveners

(or 2 large trygon squads and two lictor blocking shields)

Just sit at the edge of the table with all the dactylus and small swarms hopefully behind line of sight blocking terrain. Pop up all the trygons and raveners 3rd turn and hopefully win initiative. Use the 1 trygon squad to take one of the objective in opponents table half, preferably the one not next to all the bunkers if possible. You can also run your dactylus swarms 60 to take that objective too 3rd turn if there still alive. Use the other 3 trygon squads to attack the blitz. Two might have to shield the other so it can hold the blitz. Although the opponent only has to put 4 formations within 15 cm of the blitz and you can't win as long as there not intermingled. If you have an "open list" and the opponent can ask what you have than I doubt this will work. But its more fun than getting death strike missiled or taking 15 wounds a turn from 3 super-heavy tanks for 500 points. A game would be over in 30 minutes probably so less suffering.



Your plan doesent work. You cant sit at the table edge and hope to outrange Imperial Guard. Death Strike his the board and is Indirect. Same goes for Basilisks/Earthshakers. Dactylus are good, but they would need to spend turn 1 moving and have to wait until turn 2 to have a shot at hitting arty. Also the problem with Trygons tunnel ability is its like a Barrage from a spaceship. You pick the location before guys are set up, so a decent chance they might appear on turn 3 not very close to anything.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:57 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:30 am
Posts: 1386
Location: Örebro, Sweden
Add two trygons to your dominatrix swarm and it's safe from the deathstrikes. Just remember to put them up front of the dom relative to the deathstrikes.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:15 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:00 pm
Posts: 785
Location: Toronto
That's a good idea against deathstrikes but then you are getting into dangerous territory of requiring a custom tailored force just to have a chance to winning against one list. Adding trygons to the Dom formation is not something one would normally do with a Nids list.

_________________
Necron AC (click to see current Necron list threads)
Toronto Wargaming Group


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:48 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:25 pm
Posts: 7927
Location: Worcester, MA
Another thought. The 2014 playtest list added the symbiote character (supreme commander). You can add it to a Dom or Tyrant. Much easier to hide the Tyrant from the Deathstrikes.

_________________
Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Tyranids 2016-12-02 | Knight World 2017-01-03 | Raven Guard 2.0


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:03 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:32 pm
Posts: 4479
Location: North Yorkshire
Borka wrote:
Add two trygons to your dominatrix swarm and it's safe from the deathstrikes. Just remember to put them up front of the dom relative to the deathstrikes.

Bang on

_________________
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:05 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:19 am
Posts: 14
I agree with Gwydion. I am considering running no WEs at all next time do to the 2 shadowswords. I think its just free points your giving krieg because the shadowswords aren't very many points, 200 (its one half of a 750 point eldar titan, I don't know why its not pointed around 375. Even if it shoots tanks it will always get it points back vs. any army). Even with the Trygons added to the dominatrix it will just be shot twice with shadowswords then deathstriked missiled. In the next 2-3 turns the krieg will be able to eliminate all 1000 points of WE with a minor investment if you choose to take WEs. I really thank the way to go is no WEs. Having a supreme commander hive tyrant would make that work.

I still not sure I could win just against the 2350 points (without the 650 points of 2 shadowswords and deathmissle). It pretty even against most 3000 point tyranid lists without WEs.

20 infantry in bunker with 4 artillery
20 infantry in 2 gorgons
2 - 12 man calvary
3 superheavy tanks
2 artillery formations.
All but the artillery have commissars

What would kill this off the best? I don't really think genestealers or lictors will be able to kill the artillery. The genestealers will be shot or FF to death first and lictors will get a blast teleporting and then lose the assault. Without the supreme commander rolling ones to activate could really hurt as well as having a -1 the the iniative roll.

Your gonna have some mix of 60-80 infantry and 15-20 tanks (hive tyrants/carnifex etc) at 3000 points, but what' s the best?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:06 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5309
Location: London, UK
Dreykeo, I do not play either 'Nids or DkoK, and also agree with a general view that this might not be the best match up. However you also seem to be missing out on a number of key parts of the E:A rules and general strategy and tactics which would improve your chances.

Terrain is key for the Nids - do you have enough pieces that are a minimum of 10cm x 10cm (there should be 12 in the tournament game). Powerful as they are, Shadowswords (and most other formation so) can only shoot what they can see, so stay behind terrain or better, in it and more than 10cm from the front edge. Even when formations can shoot, usually they can only shoot units at the front of the formation - positioning of units is key, so make sure your 'fodder' surrounds more valuable units. Your greatest enemy is actually barrage templates, but clustering in terrain will mitigate their effect, especially ruins, as you can use the terrain cover value to save from hits. If all else fails, try to set up many threats, so that at least one will get through . . .

Formation composition is also key. Having tunnellers that can 'drop in unannounced', 'cannon fodder' formations to soak up enemy fire, Harridan strike formations for objective grabbing, duplicates of important units and redundancy where necessary all help you to achieve your strategic aims. Nids are one of the few armies where activation count is less important than unit numbers. If you have a WE formation (Dominatrix) add other WE to soak up hits, or even consider several such formations. Also place cheaper formations in front of your key ones to ensure you can spawn to your best advantage.

Finally you need a strategy and should place your Objective markers to match it. You should have several possible deployment plans in mind depending on the opponents army, the setup up choice and where Objectives are placed, and you should have good idea of the intended role for each formation, preferably with a secondary role to add redundancy into your plan.

Note, none of the above is foolproof (especially with my dice ;) ) but following these general guidelines will help. And if all else fails, try counting the ones thrown, so you have an excuse for losing . . . :D


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:18 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:22 am
Posts: 191
There is also Hivefleet Levi 5.0 a few posts down. I took a look at it lastnight and its very close to the current nid list, just some extra stuff that might help and felt like a bit of a buffed list. Dom has another HP, and trygons teleport. Only problem is I dont understand how to build a list using it as its super confusiing


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:02 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:03 pm
Posts: 1081
Location: London, UK
How are you playing this game that shadowswords are getting consistent LoS to your dominatrix? You either are playing with too little terrain or just being too careless.

_________________
Image
Image


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:49 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:43 pm
Posts: 2207
Location: UK
You're also being overly negative in your assessment of what your opponent's units can do versus your own. Shadowswords are slow and need LoS, so more often than not you can stop them shooting your precious units or at the very least force them to double and take the cover modifier. Under those conditions, to kill a 60 point trygon he would need to activate (2+), hit (4+), and cause more than one wound (3+). That's about a 28% chance. He has less than 8% chance of doing it twice in a row like you describe. It's also impossible for him to do it without you being able to activate first (e.g. lictors). If it were me I'd just fire the deathstrikes at the trygons and hope not to roll a 1 for damage.

Rather than losing the dom straight away, far more likely is that he will be able to kill it by the end of the game (unless you take out the deathstrikes with lictors etc - then all bets are off). But all of this is ignoring the fact that 2 shadowswords and deathstrike cost 650 points. Your dominatrix costs 350 - or 470 if you take 2 trygons. So what if he kills some stuff? He's guard, you should expect to lose WEs. You have other things to win with. Personally I think it's a much bigger problem in terms of the game result if he targets your harridans.

Still, I do think Krieg has too much good stuff available. It seems because krieg -can- have access to things in the fluff they have been given access to them in the list. For instance they could have lost the shadowsword when they gained the stormblade and stormsword.

_________________
Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:10 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:22 am
Posts: 191
Funny enough in my games, since we have started playing, we have been doing WEs wrong. We have been playing it they gete no cover modifier! Obvisouly unlike the OP, I havent gone up agaisnt DKoK with Nids, so we havent seen problems but this is good to know. Also good to know infantry out in the open get a -1 to shoto and 5+ save if they havent shot yet or in overwatch ha!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5309
Location: London, UK
scourn99 wrote:
Funny enough in my games, since we have started playing, we have been doing WEs wrong. We have been playing it they gete no cover modifier! Obvisouly unlike the OP, I havent gone up agaisnt DKoK with Nids, so we havent seen problems but this is good to know. Also good to know infantry out in the open get a -1 to shoto and 5+ save if they havent shot yet or in overwatch ha!
That is only true if the infantry are on OW in the open. It does not apply to AV (or WE) though even these are harder to shoot when in or partially obscured by terrain as you have noted.

However, going on OW is often not the best option for most of the Nid infantry units which cannot shoot, and really need to be moving into position to assault. And don't forget to use Infiltrate where possible during an assault.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:30 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:43 pm
Posts: 2207
Location: UK
It's very useful for genestealers actually, which commonly garrison forward. They might not have any shooting, but overwatch gives them -1 and a better save.

_________________
Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:58 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5309
Location: London, UK
Kyrt wrote:
It's very useful for genestealers actually, which commonly garrison forward. They might not have any shooting, but overwatch gives them -1 and a better save.

LoL, I did say 'most'. I totally agree about Genestealers used this way, though it does of course depend upon where the garrisons are placed . . . . ;)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:12 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:19 am
Posts: 14
I think I finally found a list I can win with. Its just expanding on the peoples ideas on here.

A formation of 10 trygons and the dominatrix, 1 term and 1 horm (990 points)
A garrison of 24 genestealers with broodlord within 40 cm of the bunkers on overwatch. (650)
6 small swarms of all hormagaunts with hive tyrant (1200)
1 biovore swarm (150)

The genestealers can kill the infantry in the bunkers first turn almost no matter what (low strategy rating sets up garrison second). The dominatrix and trygon can move up to support the genestealers and can't be threatened by the gorgons or calvary much (fearless) plus provide the genestealers support fire (10 trygons make them pretty much immune to TK shots). All the small swarms just kill the artillery, death strike missile and shadowswords. The list may still need little tweaks but I think it will work.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net