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Tyranid 2014 Playtest Proposals

 Post subject: Tyranid 2014 Playtest Proposals
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:18 am 
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For those of you interested in further development, here's a list with the proposals from the fine tuning thread.

In order for these to make the approved list they'll need battle reports. How many? Enough to ease the worries of Tim and myself. So try them out and let us know what you find.

Anything marked green has been added, and anything red has been deleted.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid 2014 Playtest Proposals
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:25 am 
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I'm really not keen on the idea of two Dominatrix at 3k. Between them they have excellent AA coverage and two nasty MW barrages. At 4k points, where enemy forces take more titan killing stuff I wouldn't have so much of a problem but I think it would be too powerful at 3k. I strongly suggest you have them at 0-1 per 3,000 points, or part of, being played. You could get more in big games then, without overpowering the 3k list.

I'd also use up the 1/4 WE allowance on 5 x Harridan too, that would be a lot of nasty, fast TK armed WE throwing themselves towards the enemy and needing to be dealt with, freeing up attention from other things. I would like to see the Harridans be 1/4 WE AND be 0-1 per synapse swarm.

Other changes seem good. What's the point of having a S, M, L thing on the WE though when none of them have discounts for it? Just have the Harridan have add 0-2 extra Harridan for x points.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid 2014 Playtest Proposals
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:11 pm 
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GlynG wrote:
What's the point of having a S, M, L thing on the WE though when none of them have discounts for it? Just have the Harridan have add 0-2 extra Harridan for x points.


It was just a quick copy and paste job.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid 2014 Playtest Proposals
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:38 pm 
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GlynG wrote:
I'd also use up the 1/4 WE allowance on 5 x Harridan too, that would be a lot of nasty, fast TK armed WE throwing themselves towards the enemy and needing to be dealt with, freeing up attention from other things. I would like to see the Harridans be 1/4 WE AND be 0-1 per synapse swarm. .


I've had significant concerns about Harridan spam since the start of this list, but AFAIK dave won't change it without playtest evidence. Sounds like a job for tabletop!

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid 2014 Playtest Proposals
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:06 pm 
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I'm up for trying that out next game. I also think biovores can be pretty effective taken in large numbers, which is easier now war engines don't count towards the one per synapse limit. Is that also something we need to keep an eye on?


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid 2014 Playtest Proposals
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:10 pm 
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If I were to test I'd go with 8 small swarms, 2 Dom's one with Symbiote, 5 Harridans and 1 Genestealer at 3K.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid 2014 Playtest Proposals
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:56 pm 
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I'm considering something similar but swapping out three of the swarms and the genestealers for five biovore swarms...


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid 2014 Playtest Proposals
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:07 am 
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MephistonAG wrote:
If I were to test I'd go with 8 small swarms, 2 Dom's one with Symbiote, 5 Harridans and 1 Genestealer at 3K.


I've already got another couple of Harridans arriving from ebay, and have another as yet unassembled Dom so I can test just that. Must have the correct models if I'm going to do it! :)
I presume you were thinking of running the Harridans as singles?


I should also state that Harridan spam doesn't actually strike me as an obvious problem. When I'm making a bug list there are more attractive options. Two Harridan to grab objectives and harass smaller formations are ok, but that 5+ statline is unreliable and they don't rally easily enough for my liking. I've found them more useful with gargoyles (e.g. firefighting scouts in cover and taking hits on the Harridan), but that costs a lot more meaning you can't spam them. But since other people have raised it I'll test it out.

Double Dom's I'm more suspicious of.

Genestealers I'm still unenthusiastic about taking... I suppose I should try but I never seem to be able to justify more CC in an army that already has FF as its weakness.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid 2014 Playtest Proposals
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:10 am 
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Yes I'd run the harridans as singles. Maybe if Tiny Tim can fire up vassal we could try and get a playtest in at some point?

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid 2014 Playtest Proposals
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:31 pm 
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MephistonAG wrote:
Yes I'd run the harridans as singles. Maybe if Tiny Tim can fire up vassal we could try and get a playtest in at some point?

I'll have to check when I am next being left home alone by the family.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid 2014 Playtest Proposals
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:47 am 
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Ok, so I ran a semi harridan spam list against an Rastamann's armoured Steel Legion list which we finished up last night:

Hive Fleet Harridan, 2990 POINTS
Hive Fleet Onachus Tyranids
==================================================

NEXUS SWARM [390]
1 Dominatrix, Termagants, Hormagants

TYRANID SWARM (S) [250]
6 Termagants, Tyranid Warriors, Hive Tyrant

TYRANID SWARM (S) [250]
6 Termagants, Hive Tyrant, Tyranid Warriors

TYRANID SWARM (S) [250]
6 Termagants, Hive Tyrant, Tyranid Warriors

TYRANID SWARM (S) [250]
Two Tyranid Warriors, 6 Termagants, Tyranid Warriors

TYRANID SWARM (S) [200]
Two Tyranid Warriors, 6 Termagants

TYRANID SWARM (S) [200]
Two Tyranid Warriors, 6 Termagants

HARRIDAN SWARM (S) [150]
1 Harridan

HARRIDAN SWARM (S) [150]
1 Harridan

HARRIDAN SWARM (S) [150]
1 Harridan

HARRIDAN SWARM (S) [150]
1 Harridan

BIOVORE SWARM (S) [200]
7 Biovore

BIOVORE SWARM (S) [200]
7 Biovore

BIOVORE SWARM (S) [200]
7 Biovore


3000 POINTS - Steel Legion
==================================================

SUPER-HEAVY TANK COMPANY [500]
2 Baneblade, 1 Shadowsword

SUPER-HEAVY TANK COMPANY [500]
2 Shadowsword, 1 Baneblade

FLAK BATTERY [150]
3 Hydra

ARTILLERY BATTERY [250]
3 Manticore

ARTILLERY BATTERY [250]
3 Manticore

SENTINEL SQUADRON [100]
4 Sentinels

REGIMENTAL HQ [550]
Supreme Commander, 12 Infantry, 7 Chimera, Hydra

TANK COMPANY [700]
9 Leman Russ, Hydra, Vanquisher

In the end it was a convincing win for the Tyranids 3-0 T+H, TSNP and DFT with the Blitz and BTS coming next turn fairly easily.

As you can see from the list I sacrificed some of the spam by adding Tyranid Warriors to lots of the formations to ensure 2 spawned units in most turns and added Hive Tyrants to half of the swarns to enable combined assaults where possible. The activation advantage allowed me to keep the Dominatrix out of LOS of the shadowswords until they were no longer a threat. The Harridans were pretty strong, attracting the majority of fire in the first turn if nothing else. Second turn saw the nids take out the weaker of the two SHT companies (2 Baneblades and no commissar) and another swarm bounce of the Tank Company but was basically the set up to turn three which saw pretty much a decimation of the Guard forces.

Biovores broke one of the Manticores, then a combined assault on the Mech. Company broke that and the sentinels that were close by. This meant their first activation of the turn saw them with four broken formations. Then biovores placed a bunch of BMs on the remaining SHT company which was then engaged by a Harridan which broke them. This was slightly fortunate but no the other hand it's hard to resist putting 150 points up against 500 with only a -1 advantage. The remaining activation advantage then saw the Tank company break simply through weight of fire. Biovores, a Harridan and the Dominatrix only managed to kill one but that did put about 6 BMs on them which was enough.

End of turn three they also failed to rally so they probably would have been finished off if it went to turn 4.

I'd have to say that Harridans are quite strong but I haven't tried them enough to say they're game breaking yet. I lost two of them in turn one but that took quite a lot of firepower and I already had an activation advantage of 6, for that alone I would certainly take them again. Increasing spawning to an almost guaranteed 2 per turn is also very strong - I think I must have spawned maybe 12 gants at the end of turn 2 which must be disheartening to see. And also Biovores - I really like them, they're cheap and have the potential to dump BMs on lots of targets, knocking out one of the formations of manticores was really useful, as was making the engagement on the SHT company viable and they certainly caused the Tank company to break, not bad for 400 points. Although BMs could have been laid on the SHT company by anything that could fire, it was good to be able to do it with a formation that could *only* fire and basically make it a "free" move in terms of opportunity cost.

Needless to say we're going to run it again in a few weeks, Rastmann felt he focussed too much on the Harridans in the first turn and should have spent more energy on the swarms. You really need to take out the synapse units which either means sniper units, good angles of attack or shooting them until they're dead! If you don't they very often just get back up again and carry on as though nothing happened. Corner deployment would have changed things as well, I'm sure this will happen next time around...

[Edit] Just noticed that I didn't play the Dominatrix as an upgrade, I reckon that would have made the Nexus Swarms 35 points more expensive with the addition of 4 gants. Considering I had 10 points left over this would probably have cost me maybe 1 Biovore? You can make of that what you will...


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid 2014 Playtest Proposals
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:39 pm 
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The activation disparity is pretty high, I would think that that would kill the guard over anything else. Any chance of pics next time?

How did the Biovores break the Mantricores?

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid 2014 Playtest Proposals
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:17 pm 
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Nothing special, they just shot them. I was in pretty close after a turn of marching and a double, hopping from ruin to ruin. Something like 1 hit from maybe 3/4 shots at that stage in the game, failed save, broken formation. I fact I pushed forward very hard throughout the whole game, using the usual strategy of lining up multiple assault opportunities. So much so that I had to rely on the activation advantage in turn three to march three or four formations back to grab objectives.

Sorry for no pictures, it's really just anecdotal rather than a formal playtest.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid 2014 Playtest Proposals
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:33 pm 
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Having had my share of run-ins with the tyranids, what struck me about the IG list above was the low activation count (as Dave mentions) and the lack of infantry formations. It's always tough to keep the 'nid tide at a distance to avoid getting eaten, but I've found that mechanized and regular infantry (with an upgrade or two) companies are essential to absorbing that advance. If deployed properly, it takes at least a few activations to get rid of a company in cover, for example. Even then it's iffy. However, infantry companies and scouts perform much better than, for example, russ companies.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid 2014 Playtest Proposals
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:07 pm 
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This was definitely not a goto list for facing tyranids - I think he was just seeing how viable heavy armour would be against them. If it was me and I knew I'd be facing nids it would be hard to leave out some deathstrikes to just take out the Dominatrix on turn one. I still can't think of any counter to that, except maybe lictors and winning the initiative? I'd also probably have taken an extra mech company instead of one of the SHT companies and tried to spread some snipers around a bit as well. Otherwise it should be a reasonably playable list, the Tank company wasn't going anywhere until I was in a position to fire everything I had at it, it fended off one combined assault and saw them off in the following turn. With better positioning it could have done a lot more.


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