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Genestealer Cult List v1.0

 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:31 am 
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Yes, I am pondering what to do with the nice little minis from Onslaught too. Leaning towards Uvenlords idea of doing a counts-as LatD. But since I just did a real nurgle LatD I just cannot muster the necessary enthusiasm.

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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:25 pm 
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Hi all, not to worry, this list is not dead and will be revised soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:48 pm 
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Neato! Just dug up someone from the Epic FB groups that's going to run a game with this list on Tuesday (or so they promise :) )
The List is Dead! Long Live the List!

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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:12 pm 
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Ok. Here goes. First game finished.

-----------------------
As luck insisted, the Cult beat their Guard opponents, but that was mostly due to some extreme luck in the deciding stages of the game (a “moved” Hydra rolling twin sixes on two (paper-maché) marauder bombers spring to mind, or four out of five (loyalist) LemanRuss tanks failing their saves in a single assault).

But, luck aside, let me start with a few thing that sprung to mind on the individual units.

1. Characters. My favourite part of the list. The one critique is that it was omitted to state what models can be upgraded. I mean, can I upgrade a LemanRuss or a Superheavy with the magus? The MW-firefight weapon is pretty lame when you stick it on a ff6+ BroodBrother so the difference is rather massive. Same goes for the broodlord, as once more RAW says I do not have to add purestrain in order to be able to include him. Love the Patriarch, though it surprised me a bit he is not a leader. Fearless is perhaps too much, but it would really save his bacon from dying from a sad little blastmarker.

2. Genestealers. Lovely, as always. By far the best unit in the game and they (have to) compensate for most of the weaknesses in the army. As it should. O, the “infiltrate” option is awesome.

3. Hybrids. Adore them, though the difference with broodbrothers is way too big for my taste.

4. BroodBrothers. Characterful, but borderline useless. The 6 on ff makes then quite limp (and the 5 in cc is too easy to avoid). The demagogue seems useful only for his ‘leader’ skill (and weaker than the demagogue of the Chaoscult list), though I do not see ppl shooting at them much once they get to know them better. Returning them to “guard-stats” would resurrect them as a viable option. Even the ChaosCultists are superior (and fire twice as many shots, be it poorer ones).
That being said, the Flavour text in the Chimera-entry hints at all Brothers being pro’s, so that might need changing as well when they remain at 5+/6+.

5. FireSupport. Even when fluff tells us that broodbrothers have nerfed stats because they are not professionals, these are said to be the professional guardsmen. Sadly, the stats tell a different story. Even when keeping the brothers nerfed to 5+/6+, I had expected the teams to remain on a Guardlike 6+/4+ (just like TraitorCult Firesupport).

6. Liktor. Does not work for me. More accurately: fluff makes me wonder if it belongs in the list at all.

7. Sentinel. Pretty standard (which is non-too good). I feel it should be exploitable, due to the possible additions and their scouting rule, but I have yet to find a good exploit. Will put more effort into in in the coming weeks.

8. Civvy vehicle / Chimera. Neither is really viable, as the transported units do not shoot or FF well enough to deserve a ride, let alone a shooty/f -ride.

9. Basilisk / Russ / Hydra. Awesome, as they are in all armies. The simple fact that they have rugular guard stats make them a mandatory backbone.

10. Superheavies Piss poor, but fun. I am rather miffed that in contrast to the superheavies they are based on, as they do not have decks to fire from for the poor schmo’s that hide inside (not that they would hit much of course). Combined with the higher price when bought as transports, that sort of disqualifies them (as transports). Though the rules do most of the damage ofcourse, as my dream of an inner circle charging 30 & 40cm from the safety of their holds is sadly not allowed by the rules :{[]

11. Genestealer Ark. Too strange for me. Sorry.

12. PDF-Bomber. Compares extremely poorly with marauders (“more manoeuvrable” the fluff claims, but again, the stats disagree ->FighterBommer?). Sadly, though I understand they should not be too cheap (activation wise), I would expect a much larger flock of them for 200points. For this price a Marauder statline without armour and or as a F/B would be more accurate and that was perhaps not the idea.

13. PDF-fighter. Same as the bomber, especially as both bring a single aa6+/50 points (be it the bomma has a nifty turret), but the bomber can actually bomb something and the fighter sucks on all fronts. Virtually eliminating any reason to include it.


Points on points

o If 6 brothers are 75, that makes the demagogue 50 pnts. Making him equally expensive as a broodlord, but based on a much crappier statline and with less upgrades. Seems a tad harsh. I never felt like I had to protect him.

o 6 purestrain are 150 pnt (25/gs), so you’d expect 3 extra to cost 75, not 100.

o Love the magus, even at 100pnts, but as I mentioned, I feel a restriction is on order as to what he gets to piggyback on (otherwise might as well start modelling a special Russ and Heavy or at least a Hybrid). I really think he might benefit from his own base and statline, just like the Patriarch. Or at least `hybrid`-only.

o 3 extra Tanks cost 200, but IG generally seem to pay 175.

o Basic tank platoon in 400/6, IG pay 650/10 and that includes a vanquisher. Close, but again, more expensive than Guard.



How did it play out on its first outing?

So far as it should, but that might be me.

I feel rather dependant on genestealers to disrupt the opponent in the initial stages of the battle (and they are quite good at that). Basically, genestealers run the show with Russ and Basilisk support with hydra cover. My opponent did all he could to eliminate Patty (->fearless would have saved the poor bugger btw) because of the blastmarker-rule. Again, nice flavour and a serious danger for the army for the small bonus he gives (rally+1). Good to see him be hunted, feels right. Other than that, most of the army either has teleport or scout or garisson, which is a nice odd feel. Only basilisks and armour start in the deployment zone. Brothers are quite useless, I field them in hopes of proving myself wrong, but so far Hybrids are a lot better.
Perhaps: “Though must have at least as many brother units as hybrid units” as a rule for the amateur-companies, to keep them in the army?

Anyway, cheers & let the disagrrements roll in. I´ll keep you posted of the other outings.

Cheers,

B


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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:30 pm 
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Kaleb wrote:
Ok. Here goes. First game finished. ...


Nice read there :)

I'm building my own cult at the moment, using minis from Onslaught and TroubleMaker, so this is good intel. ;D

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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:44 pm 
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Stoiss wrote:
Kaleb wrote:
Ok. Here goes. First game finished. ...


Nice read there :)

I'm building my own cult at the moment, using minis from Onslaught and TroubleMaker, so this is good intel. ;D
(me as well, am contemplating the superheavies from them as well)
I am hoping to diversify the list a little. Mostly the reflex is to make all of the unnits worse, but sadly that means they get cheaper as well...., which has the unwanted side-effect of making them get too many cheap drops.

But we are bouncing idea's around here and as soon as we have news, I'll try to post it here asap. Ideas are the easy part..., putting accurate points on them is HARD. But I think we need as many idea's as possible and then see what is and what isn't fit to include, before we start on the hard part of points & balance of the army. So any and all input is greatly appreciated. :sos

Current idea's that were mailed to me yesterday (I have yet to check them out myself).

* making the AA (hydra's) static, as is "the Blitzen AA".
* mortar teams (who are apparently in the Catchan list)
* "Siege regiment artillery" instead of basilisks (on p46, i assume that points to the compendium2014)

I am thrilled by the static AA, be it as a second option or a replacement to the standard Hydra (50 for static or an overpriced 75 for the Hydra or something along those lines). The rest I have to eyeball first, but either way, I certainly need to go through the compendium2014 again in order to trawl for idea's.


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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:38 pm 
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Interesting list ... especially useful now with some of Onslaught's releases ...

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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:17 pm 
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Legion 4 wrote:
Interesting list ... especially useful now with some of Onslaught's releases ...

And hopefully we can come up with idea's to match the other models.

That's why I try top get as many ppl as possible to cook up extra idea's to make the list less Guard and more Cult. So anything that pops up, please post ;D


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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:32 pm 
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Great work going on here! I have been pondering a few things.

I really dislike the Guard-in-pink-clothes-with-genestealers approach too, so that is good. I am far more interested in a psychic gangsta style cult that shuns the heavy Imperial military technology.

1. In line with the current attempts in the LatD [EXPERIMENTAL] 0.2 list, I would prefer all IG references removed. No tanks, Heavies, Chimeras, aircraft or Hydras. I would like to see civilian vehicles with weaponry bolted on as poor quality APC, SPAA, and SPA. As was the reaction to that change in the LatD, I suppose this might not be everyones cup of tea, but I do think that this is the only way to create something new and unique. I want limos!

2. Why not make the Broodbrothers expendable? It would be quite fitting, seeing as the core of the cult would care little about these inferior organisms.

3. Not sure about the Lictor either. There is something quite tempting with the concept of slowly building up more and more purestrain and heavy organisms. I read a post (cannot remember by who, might even be in this thread :D) referencing a cult that was fearful of the day that the main fleet would arrive and eliminate them too. This prompted them to flee before the onslaught, thus spreading the contamination further. Again, I feel a bit unconvinced about the whole thing. You risk going from the IG-with-genestealers problem to a Tyranids-with-hybrids problem...

4. The ark is weird. Don´t like it. Do realize that this together with "1." will cause some serious deficiencies. There must be an alternative to using IG stuff to tackle WEs. The LatD [Experimental] has demons and Demonengines. How do they do it in the Tyranid list(s)?

I am afraid I do not really play a lot, and my fluff-indoctrination is patchy at best, so please look at this as friendly pokes rather than vitriolic critique.

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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:05 pm 
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"I really dislike the Guard-in-pink-clothes-with-genestealers approach too" Indeed, they probably would wear what ever color/type of uniform they had on when the went to the dark side ...

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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:07 pm 
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Kaleb wrote:
Legion 4 wrote:
Interesting list ... especially useful now with some of Onslaught's releases ...

And hopefully we can come up with idea's to match the other models.

That's why I try top get as many ppl as possible to cook up extra idea's to make the list less Guard and more Cult. So anything that pops up, please post ;D

Onslaught is going to make Cover Limos in 3 types, btw ...

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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:17 pm 
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Legion 4 wrote:
"I really dislike the Guard-in-pink-clothes-with-genestealers approach too" Indeed, they probably would wear what ever color/type of uniform they had on when the went to the dark side ...

Touché. I was thinking of the old brightly coloured Rogue Trader 40K plastics used interchangeably for genstealer or chaos cults (or both at the same time).

In a way, I suppose that is at least an approach. Painting the cult imperial guards to look like imperial guards is, well... insert any synonym for unexiting here...

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Last edited by Nitpick on Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:24 pm 
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Nitpick wrote:
Legion 4 wrote:
"I really dislike the Guard-in-pink-clothes-with-genestealers approach too" Indeed, they probably would wear what ever color/type of uniform they had on when the went to the dark side ...

Touché. I was thinking of the old brightly coloured Rogue Trader 40K plastics used interchangeably or genstealer or chaos cults (or both at the same time).

In a way, I suppose that is at least an approach. Painting the cult imperial guards to look like imperial guards is, well... insert any synonym for unexiting here...


I think the actual colors on the models is not really the point. The list being made up of "guard + genestealers" is the underlying topic, no?

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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:44 pm 
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Yes.

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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:24 am 
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Good thoughts all :)

And that army list, with a few tweaks, is exactly what I had in mind zombocom. Thanks very much ! :)


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