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[Tyranid Special Rules] Regeneration

 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Regeneration
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:11 am 
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No.

Extra DC was fine to represent regeneration. Once again I feel you (Dave) are just adding in further complication where it is not needed, in both this and the spawning rule.

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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Regeneration
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:30 am 
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frogbear wrote:
Extra DC was fine to represent regeneration. Once again I feel you (Dave) are just adding in further complication where it is not needed, in both this and the spawning rule.


Extra DC is not fine to represent regeneration. It doesn't give that impression at all. All other titan-class models gets their own shield rule, nids deserve one too.


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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Regeneration
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:45 am 
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I always figured Bio-titans could mimic Imperial titans with the number of shots it takes to bring one down, albeit in a bio-tech way.

e.g it takes 6 hits to strip a Warlord's shields and 8 unsaved hits to kill it.

Brainstorm(more a query really): Could the regen rule be replaced with a sort of "auto" hit repair (like a shield) kind of like a need to punch through its armour before it starts getting hurt?

Basically once the Nid has taken xDC then it starts taking it's proper saves until dead etc.
It would seem to emulate normal titans a bit more anyway. You'd keep track of its current Damage as normal but only when it reaches half etc. do you start rolling saves. heck you could always do it the other way around too.

I know it's not exactly a regen rule but it seems a lot easier to remember and play against/with and it sort of already exists with the void shields rule. I mean, do Nid Bio titans have to use a regenerate mechanism??

You could always make the Criticals more "armour penetrated +dc damage" etc...


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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Regeneration
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:11 am 
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Dobbsy: That seems, if anything, more complicated to explain than "War Engines with the Regeneration special rule regain one lost DC in the end phase, up to their original maximum."

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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Regeneration
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:26 am 
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The regen rule can be about as complicated as the void shield rule. It doesn't have to be as simple as we can make it.


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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Regeneration
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:31 am 
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Ulrik wrote:
The regen rule can be about as complicated as the void shield rule. It doesn't have to be as simple as we can make it.

The Tyranid list is already the slowest list to play. I don't think it needs to become slower.

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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Regeneration
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:38 am 
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Seriously? How does the Imperial Void Shields rule make this list more complicated or slower? It's essentially an existing rule with a tweak.

You guys make me chuckle sometimes :D


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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Regeneration
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:41 am 
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Quote:
Seriously? How does the Imperial Void Shields rule make this list more complicated or slower?

Counting and raising shields in the end phase, spending time deciding whether to raise shields or DC when marshalling, even something as basic as tracking shields with an extra dice.

You're going to add a minute or two to each game for each WE with void shields in a list.

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You guys make me chuckle sometimes :D

Don't laugh at me, please.

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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Regeneration
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:57 am 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
Quote:
Seriously? How does the Imperial Void Shields rule make this list more complicated or slower?

Counting and raising shields in the end phase, spending time deciding whether to raise shields or DC when marshalling, even something as basic as tracking shields with an extra dice.

You're going to add a minute or two to each game for each WE with void shields in a list.

Quote:
You guys make me chuckle sometimes :D

Don't laugh at me, please.

Yeah, ok sorry. :)

I should clarify my last post. It's not exactly Void shields but a quasi shields rule. The thing is the idea is actually easier than Imperial Void Shields because there are no void shields etc. to track/raise just DC. It's just straight damage required to kill it i.e. The bug discounts a number of hits then it has to start rolling to save once it hits a threshold. It gets nothing back with a marshall. In comparison a Titan discounts a number of hits then starts rolling to save. It can raise shields after a marshall etc.


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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Regeneration
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:41 am 
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The point is that extra DC doesn't accurately represent regeneration. Suggestion is that we need a rule that simulates 'piercing through armour'. Is this a non-sequitur or what? I thought piercing armour was what the armour save was about?

To regenerate you need to lose it first.

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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Regeneration
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:45 am 
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I have 3 suggestions:
a) change nothing, i.e. nid beasts are tougher than they look because they regenerate a lot of smaller wounds and in general are hard to bring down - have more DC than the models look like
b) 1 DC comes back in the end phase (simples)
c) whatever the rule for spawning is, have something similar for WEs but they get DC back (their formation can still get gants/gargs back of course). That way 2 complicated rules can be merged into a single one.

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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Regeneration
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:05 am 
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Yes. Either 1DC back in every end phase or just treat regenerating DC as Spawning Points (obviously only on WE with the Regeneration ability).

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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Regeneration
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:44 pm 
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Agreed, 1 DC in the end phase or spawning points to regen.

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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Regeneration
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:16 pm 
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carlos wrote:
The point is that extra DC doesn't accurately represent regeneration. Suggestion is that we need a rule that simulates 'piercing through armour'. Is this a non-sequitur or what? I thought piercing armour was what the armour save was about?

To regenerate you need to lose it first.

Looks like you completely missed the part where I said:
Quote:
heck you could always do it the other way around too.


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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Regeneration
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:41 am 
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If you do it the other way around you have DC which have no save. So the nids have got bits hanging outside their armour that needs to be shot up first? What kind of evolutionary step is that? (Granted, we have our armour inside the fleshy bits too but we're not Tyranids)
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I know it's not exactly a regen rule

I saw the part were you said that and agreed wholeheartedly with you.

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