Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

[Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons

 Post subject: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:00 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:25 pm
Posts: 8643
Location: Worcester, MA
I wanted to preface the Bio-Titan thread (hoping to post later today) with stats for all the old Bio-titan weapons. I don't have the SM/TL stats with me but the NetEpic stats are very close so we'll go with those for the moment:

Code:
Bile Launcher     100cm   1          3+   -3
Bio-Cannon        75cm    3          5+   -3
Cluster Spines    50cm    8BP        3+   -1
Pyro-Acid Spray   0cm     Template   3+   -2


Ignoring special rules for the moment, range-wise there's a clear progression: Pyro-Acid Spray, Cluster Spines, Bio-Cannon and Bile Launcher. Given that I'm looking to give those EA ranges of 15cm, 30cm, 45cm and 60cm respectively.

For firepower:

The Bile Launcher is the weakest, it's 1/3 the shots of the Bio-cannon but it does have a handy barrage-like special rule for splatter. Given that I was looking at giving it 3BP.

The Bio-Cannon has good armor penetration (-3) and rate of fire. With that and the 40k stats for them I'm going with a MW4+ for these.

The Cluster Spines have a lot of barrage points, enough that I think 4BP ought to work here.

Finally, the Pyro-Acid Spray has good armor penetration and using the flamer template to hit. Rather than try to bring that back though I think 3BP MW works. However, they did have Ignore Cover in NetEpic (not sure about SM/TL), thoughts about adding that as well given its 15cm range?

Code:
Bile Launcher     60cm     3BP    -
Bio-Cannon        45cm     MW4+   -
   and            (15cm)   SA     Extra Attack (+1), Macro-weapon
Cluster Spines    30cm     4BP    -
Pyro-Acid Spray   15cm     3BP    Macro-weapon (perhaps Ignore Cover)


So what we're left with are weapons who's relative power decreases as their range increases. I think they'll be fairly easy to balance this way. Thoughts?

For the Razorclaw, obviously a TK CC attack is needed, I was thinking TK (1D3). They also had frag spines embedded into them as well, I was thinking of doing something similar to the Eldar Titan Power Fist here, namely EA (+2) in FF if the Razorclaw isn't used for CC. Thoughts?

Code:
Razorclaw   (base contact)   Assaults Weapons   Extra Attack (+1), Titan-killer (1D3)
   or   (15cm)   Small Arms   Extra Attack (+2)

_________________
Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2018-05-15


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:16 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5568
From the modern standpoint, there are only two Bio-titan weapons; the Biocannon and (bloody huge) Scything Talons.

Personally I think the wide variety of bio-weapons should be kept for a bio-titan focused list rather than in a core list.

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:30 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 2:55 pm
Posts: 610
I dunno, the above 5 weapons aren't that much, they certainly leave scope for more in a Titan specific list


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:31 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20849
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
I'd echo Zombo on this one.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:42 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:25 pm
Posts: 8643
Location: Worcester, MA
Those thoughts aside, what do you think of the stats? We're not talking army lists at this point.

_________________
Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2018-05-15


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:52 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5568
Well I dislike the Biocannon stat, I prefer the old 2 shots and AP focused ones.

Definitely don't have both MW and Ignore Cover on a barrage; one or the other.

Cluster Spines seem more like something that should give extra FF than biocannons.

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:46 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 6:12 am
Posts: 1331
Location: Australia
i'd rather see the acid get disrupt and ignore cover, giving it MW and IC is a bit nasty i think
i agree with zombo on the cluster spines getting the extra firefight attacks.
i also think that for the most part, he's probably right about not needing too many options for weapons in the core list. i'd suggest like the gargants, have a default option, with a "can swap X for Y" option. pick a weapon that suits (either bile if you're swapping the claws, or probably the cluster spines if you're trading the biocannons) and leave the rest for somewhere else

_________________
~Every Tool Is A Weapon, If You Hold It Right~


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:16 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8705
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
So i'm back home and have all my books handy :)
The Bio-Cannon should definately be 2 x 45cm AP3+/AT4+ Ignore Cover as it's roughly the same as two Demolisher shots.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:36 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:57 pm
Posts: 491
Location: Liverpool
Other Bio-Titan Weapons (according to Netepic) include Ripper Tentacles, Spore Pod and Stinger Salvo which I believe all had models which bump it to 9 weapons total (if you include the modern really big scything talons)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:49 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8705
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
Titan-grade Scything Talons, Bio-Cannons and Ripper Tentacles is all what we need for the two lists.
The Bio-titan list can use the other weapons.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:44 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:25 pm
Posts: 8643
Location: Worcester, MA
Stat time:

Code:
Bile Launcher                60cm             3BP               -
Bio-Titan Bio-Cannon         45cm             3x AP4+/AT5+      -
Cluster Spines               30cm             4BP               -
Pyro-Acid Spray              15cm             3BP               Ignore Cover
Ripper Tentacles             (base contact)   Assault Weapons   Extra Attack (+2), First Strike
Razorclaw                    (base contact)   Assault Weapons   Extra Attack (+1), Titan-killer (1D3)
   or                        (15cm)           Small Arms        Extra Attack (+1)
Massive Scything Talons      (base contact)   Assault Weapons   Extra Attack (+1), Titan-killer
Gargantuan Scything Talons   (base contact)   Assault Weapons   Extra Attack (+1), Titan-killer (1D3)


I'd rather not add extra FF attacks to the cluster spines since it never had them before. I'm just looking to extrapolate the SM/TL effects into EA.

For the bio-cannon, the titan-grade version had more attacks in SM/TL hence the RoF increase for it here.

For the Ripper Tentacles, I think the the current 9.2.1 rules are fair enough. I don't believe Spore Pods or Stinger Salvos ever had models however, hence why they've been left out. We can obviously add them in at a later date however.

_________________
Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2018-05-15


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:45 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8705
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
Bio-Cannon should be the same for each creature. Still thonk 2 x AP3+/AT4+ is the way to go.
Ripper Tentacles would be more proper represented if they would give First Strike to the basic CC-attacks.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:01 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20849
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Just leave the bio-cannon as the same for each creature please. You're just adding unnessesary complication otherwise IMO.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:06 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:25 pm
Posts: 8643
Location: Worcester, MA
So noted on the bio-cannon.

_________________
Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2018-05-15


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:38 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5568
Interesingly, the biocannon on the hierophant in the apocalypse rules does actually have more shots than the Barbed Hierodule one, so we could go either way on that one.

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net