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[Xeno-Biostatistics] Big Brood - Cs, Bs, Zs and their like

 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Big Brood - Cs, Bs, Zs and their li
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:41 pm 
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Why?

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 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Big Brood - Cs, Bs, Zs and their li
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:42 pm 
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Because that is the most advanced Hive Fleet and Venomthropes feature first in the most current Tyranid Codex.

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 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Big Brood - Cs, Bs, Zs and their li
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:46 pm 
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I mean why from a list design point of view. What do they add to the list? The Malanthrope covers the poisony CC factor, and unless they get a special rule for the shooting protection I just don't see what they add. Another CC specialist. Yay.

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 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Big Brood - Cs, Bs, Zs and their li
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:47 pm 
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Their poison cloud would give First Strike FF. That'd be unique.

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 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Big Brood - Cs, Bs, Zs and their li
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:15 pm 
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For Biovores, I have never encountered any intuitive complaints about their present 9.2.1 stats. Shooting bio-stuff=disrupt=OK. They are not part of the problem, so why change them?

For Carnivores, 15 cm would be OK:ish if they could garrison/drop pod. Since garrison has become out of the question and Onachus uses Drop Pods, this change would be a real bugger for Leviathan. I fully support the 20 cm move, on the sole account of utility. If Carnifexes are supposed to be taken only to add durability and never get to use their big claws in action, it would be quite disappointing.

Alternatively, use an old-school Screamer-Killer version for the Onachus with a 15 cm move, and the 20 cm move on the "evolved" Leviathan variants. It would even make sense.

/Fredmans


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 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Big Brood - Cs, Bs, Zs and their li
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:19 pm 
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Quote:
For Carnivores, 15 cm would be OK:ish

Having played them many times, 15cm really sucked. As Zombo says, before they went to 20cm they pretty much never reached CC.

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 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Big Brood - Cs, Bs, Zs and their li
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:24 pm 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
Quote:
For Carnivores, 15 cm would be OK:ish

Having played them many times, 15cm really sucked. As Zombo says, before they went to 20cm they pretty much never reached CC.


Then we agree. My point was that their sole utility with 15cm move would be to deny casualties and never see any action. But do not forget that Daves list contains a Drop Pod possibility, which could mitigate the problem somewhat - for that list!

/Fredmans

@Evil and Chaos. Sorry about the PM, hit the wrong button.


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 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Big Brood - Cs, Bs, Zs and their li
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:26 pm 
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Never reaching close-combat is the problem with Wh40k CC-Carnifices too.

But note: As a Monstrous Creature they have less problems walking through Difficult Terrain than ordinary Infantry = walking through it faster.
Now think about that an Epic game board would be littered with rubble and small bushes in real Wh40k-world a 20cm move for MCs like the Carnifex would make sense.

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Last edited by BlackLegion on Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Big Brood - Cs, Bs, Zs and their li
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:27 pm 
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Quote:
do not forget that Daves list contains a Drop Pod possibility, which could mitigate the problem somewhat - for that list!

I'm in favour of having some sort of drop pod type thing in the Leviathan list too, linked to a Hive Ship most likely.

However, the Carnifex should be designed to work in a deployed ground-based role primarily IMO. If it is overpowered when dropped, then you need to charge more for the drop pods, not downgrade the Carnifex so that it's useless in all other roles.

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 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Big Brood - Cs, Bs, Zs and their li
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:31 pm 
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See above. 20cm movement should be standard for what counts as Monstrous Creature in Wh40k.

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 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Big Brood - Cs, Bs, Zs and their li
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:24 am 
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From my experience of making up nid forces, Zoanthropes are the 'black sheep' of the herd. I do believe that a FF4+ MW would really help to make them a serious consideration to a swarm.

Not really fazed on the rest.

Hoping that units like Biovores will be able to be taken as seperate swarms with Dactylis and Zoanthropes, rather than having to move with a larger swarm. It would be good to have these as a supporting unit again or one used for area denial. Their role and design was never meant to run with the swarm.

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 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Big Brood - Cs, Bs, Zs and their li
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:00 am 
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Dave wrote:
Zoanthrope...on the shooting attack from the Warp Blast (24” S5 AP3 Assault 1 Blast in 40k) Zombo had it has a 30cm AP4+ and I a 15cm AP5+. My reasoning being that 24” is FF (15cm) range and those stats in 40k are closer to a Heavy Bolter or Frag Missile (AP5+) then a Battle Cannon (AP4+). Thoughts?

Modern Zoathropes are very small, so I have mine based 3 to an infantry base. Even if they count as LVs due to the shoot the big ones style thing it seems reasonable to abstract their stats to the 4+ to account for there being multiple.


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 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Big Brood - Cs, Bs, Zs and their li
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:11 am 
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Biovores, Zoanthropes, Lictors, Warriors, all should be 3 to a base infantry really.

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 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Big Brood - Cs, Bs, Zs and their li
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:20 am 
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I'm completely fine with them being LV in rules terms (if the new champions intend to continue this convention, which I approve of myself), but yes model-wise modern models at least should be 2-3 with a base. Having single a single Zoanthrope on it's own would just look pitiful on the epic battlefield.


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 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Big Brood - Cs, Bs, Zs and their li
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:20 pm 
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I knocked up the Venomthrope in Jormungandr as inf, 15cm move, 5+ sv, 2xCC4+ first strike attacks and spawnable. Essentially something along the lines of a smaller version of the Malanthrope.


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