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Points formula values for Squat

 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Squat
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:21 pm 
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OP updated.

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Squat
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 9:18 pm 
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Hi!

I was particularly keen on seeing the update for this army list due to all the Praetorian.

I'm VERY pleased with the updated costs. MUCH improved IMO. :)

I have to look over the stats for the behemoth, did we make it THAT powerful! LOL! ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Squat
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 4:52 pm 
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OP updated. Error with Leviathan Transport cost fixed.

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Squat
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 7:56 pm 
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I have to say this is looking very very good Magnus!

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Squat
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:01 pm 
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OP updated to V0.33

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Squat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:59 am 
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Great work as usual Magnus.

The Squats are a force that I'm keen to try next because they are one which haven't made many savings under the formula - in fact there are many increases (they were always very hard to beat so I don't have too much of a problem with this).

One of the things I'm wondering is about their VPs; they used to offer an increased yield because of their high Break Point but would it be fair to assume that because the system is worked on a mathematical formula that the VP yield would now be calculated in the same way as any other force?

Cheers!

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Squat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:12 am 
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Could I also query the comparative costings between the Gyrocopters and the Squat Bikes and Trikes?

The Gyrocopters are skimmers with 360 fire arc and good weaponry and incredible speed. They are superior to Bikes and Trikes in every way except for a comparative difference of -1 to their CAF, yet they are far cheaper. Is there a reason for this seeming disparity?

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Squat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:18 am 
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Please ignore that last question; I'm forgetting that the Bikes have larger numbers in their unit which is why they are more expensive. That said, I'd still be inclined to use the Gyrocopters than Bikes and Trikes as I feel they are more effective units, certainly from an all round perspective.

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Squat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:01 pm 
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I would say to calculate VP as with any other force as their costs are now based on their higher Break-Point.

I don't recall offhand the Gyrocopters having 360 fire. I'll have to check the Squats.pdf and their calculations to see if that is taken into account.

Edit: Just checked. I do have the 360 fire taken into account for the four Gyrocopter variants (Iron, Steel, War, and Bomber).

Individually, the Bikes & Trikes are much less expensive, except for the Guildmaster. He is more than any 'copter other than the Bomber. As you said, the Bikes are grouped in larger numbers, thus higher final cost.

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Squat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:56 pm 
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Thanks Magnus, much appreciated.

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Squat
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:00 pm 
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I think there might be something wrong with the Grand Battery costing or are the costings for the individual units wrong (Mole Mortars & Thudd Guns)?

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Squat
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:46 am 
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A Grand Battery consists of a Thudd Gun Battery and two Mole Mortar Batteries. It has a total of 15 models at a Break Point of 11 and Morale of 2. But first, costs for the constituent models:

Mole Mortar:
Light Artillery: 1
Movement: 2.75 [Terrain Access value: 2.75, Move 5cm, no adjustments (2.75 *1 *1) ]
Save: 0 (no save)
CAF: -2.25 [(1+2.75+1+1-5)=0.75*-3=-2.25]
Weapon: 27.3375 [ 1BP (3.6), combines fire (1.5), 150cm (3), To Hit for 1BP 6+ (0.5), Barrage can Trap (IE, Mole Mortar Special: 1.5), Ignore Cover (1.5), stand (1.5); thus 3.6 *1.5 *3 *0.5 *1.5 *1.5 *1.5 = 27.3]
Model Cost: 28.8375 [1 +2.75 +0 -2.25 +27.3]
Morale: 34.605 [28.8375 *1.2]

Thudd Gun:
Light Artillery: 1
Movement: 2.75 [Terrain Access value: 2.75, Move 5cm, no adjustments (2.75 *1 *1) ]
Save: 0 (no save)
CAF: -2.25 [(1+2.75+1+1-5)=0.75*-3=-2.25]
Weapon: 12.15 [ 2BP (3.6), combines (1.5), 75cm (1.5), to hit for 2BP 6+ (0.5), ROF2 (2), stand (1.5); thus 3.6 *1.5 *1.5 *0.5 *2 *1.5 = 12.15]
Model Cost: 13.65 [1 +2.75 +0 -2.25 +12.15]
Morale: 16.38 [13.65 *1.2]

As a Grand Battery has 15 models, 10 of which are Mole Mortar and 5 are Thudd Guns, the Ablation Group (equal in number to the Break Point, in this case 11) must be to approximately the same ratio. This results in having 7 Thudd Guns and 4 Mole Mortars ... er, wait a minute. [That's wrong. Argh, I did that backwards. It should be 7 Mole Mortars and 4 Thudd Guns. Right, fixed that.] Continuing, the break point ratio of 11 to 15 has a value of 0.8666667 [(1+11/15)/2] thus the value for the Company is [ ( ( 34.605 {Mole Mortar w/Morale} *7 + 16.38 {Thudd Gun w/Morale} *4 ) *0.86666667 + ( 34.605 *3 + 16.38 *1) *0.5 {Morale} ) *0.9 {Company} = ((34.605*7+16.38*4)*0.8666667+(34.605*3+16.38)*0.5)*0.9 = 294.1367 which rounds to 294

Thus you are correct, there was an error in the cost of the Grand Battery. Fixed now. Thanks for catching that.

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Squat
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:40 am 
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Glad to be of assistance - even if it didn't work out in my favour! ;D

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Squat
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:49 pm 
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Yeah, turns out the error was twofold. Primary error was as above in having the wrong numbers of each for each sub-group. Secondarily, I also had a typo when I put in the points, as it had been listed as ~135 when my spreadsheet had it listed as ~235 with the error. So while it did go up a bit, it wasn't as much as it seemed.

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Squat
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:27 pm 
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Hi Magnus,

I thought you might be interested to know I've posted a mini battle report after playtesting the Squats under your formula.

viewtopic.php?f=146&t=26063&p=566568#p566568

Hope you find it of interest. Please let me know if you want any of it to be added to this thread for discussion.

Cheers!

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