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Tremor Cannon vs Bellygun question

 Post subject: Tremor Cannon vs Bellygun question
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:44 pm 
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When firing the Eldar tremor cannon it says:
"this weapon ignores shields of any type. When a target with a hit location template is struck only the lowest portion of its template may be selected for the purpose of saving throws and damage."

I take that to mean there's no scatter or is there? If so how is that scatter resolved?

I'm asking because I had a game where a phantom Titan with a Tremor Cannon obliterated an un-damaged Great Gargant with one shot.

The shot bypassed all the shields, Because we didn't roll for scatter, the Eldar player aimed at the Bellyun. He rolled a 3 and scored damage.

Okay from then on the Eldar had lucky rolls, but given that one of a Gargant's primary characteristics is that it usually soaks up a lot of firepower before going down (the shot bypassed nine power fields), it still seemed a little too easy. So easy in fact it makes a strong case for Eldar Titans to take only Tremor Cannons when fighting Gargants. Why spend turns knocking down power fields or waiting for them to flicker?

Am I playing this right? Should the hit to the "lowest portion of the template" scatter? If so how? Because it can't scatter up the body like a normal scatter would. Or does it and it then becomes a miss? How about downward? Or do you just keep rolling till it says hit or left or right? Or should there be some other scatter rule for this?

I notice that the vibrio-cannon has different wording: "The attack ignores shields and any target that uses a template is hit on a leg or track location". Perhaps that would be a better solution to word the Tremor Cannon the same way?

My apologies if this question is old news and has been answered before.


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 Post subject: Re: Tremor Cannon vs Bellygun question
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:05 am 
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To the best of my knowledge, it has not been addressed before, or even noticed.

Good catch. I would agree that it should only affect locations that are touching the ground as otherwise it is too powerful.

As to scatter, I'm not sure. Offhand I'd probably say that it doesn't scatter, as this would offset the restriction of only being able to target locations that touch the ground (IE, foot, leg, track, wheel, etc).

If it does scatter, and the direction of scatter (generally up, but possibly other with some templates) indicates a location that does not touch the ground, I'd allow it to affect the location that it scattered to. Even in reality, vibrations are odd things. Sometimes they ignore the thing one would think that they would affect, and damage something seemingly unrelated. Thus a Vibro/Tremor attack could easily affect a location adjacent to one that touches the ground, but the primary target should be limited to those that touch the ground.

In other words, I think that a Tremor Cannon should not be able to directly target the Bellygun, but instead would have to target a Foot location. If the shot scatters onto the Bellygun, then that could be affected. Unless the Bellygun actually rests on the ground. Which is possible, but I doubt it.

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 Post subject: Re: Tremor Cannon vs Bellygun question
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:07 pm 
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I think if the shockwave is enough to destroy buildings then one could argue the case that the damaging force could reach the belly gun that is slung very close to the ground. But agreed, it is unbalancing to get to hit the Crown Jewels without having to first destroy the shields.
The idea of vibrations causing damage higher up makes sense, but I think that if the vibration causes damage up high, then it should damage or at least have a good chance to damage the intervening body part as well - because in order for the other part to be damaged then the intervening part must have suffered some real punishment on the way.
Maybe the tremor cannon should be rephrased to be like the vibro cannon, and you roll for scatter normally but ignore up or down and only scatter sideways if a sideways scatter pops up.


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 Post subject: Re: Tremor Cannon vs Bellygun question
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:22 am 
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Hi!

Technically the belly gun is a legal target by the letter of the rules. I would agree it has more to do with the lack of granularity of damage tables than the weapon being overpowered, but that is an argument for Platinum. ;)

To balance it out I would only allow leg/track locations, the lowest ones (i.e those touching the ground).

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 Post subject: Re: Tremor Cannon vs Bellygun question
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:26 am 
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Thanks Primarch!

So you're thinking no scatter then?


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 Post subject: Re: Tremor Cannon vs Bellygun question
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:07 pm 
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Storm Puppy wrote:
Thanks Primarch!

So you're thinking no scatter then?


Hi!

No scatter.

It usually doesn't matter since the leg locations touching the ground tend to be the same.

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 Post subject: Re: Tremor Cannon vs Bellygun question
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:59 am 
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Okay, thanks again Primarch! That all makes sense and seems fair.

I wish I'd played my last game like that. For the Orks it would have been a very different outcome!

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 Post subject: Re: Tremor Cannon vs Bellygun question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:32 pm 
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IIRC, this question about Scattering for vibro cannons/tremor cannons was asked by Kotrin few years ago and zap13 replied that you still scatter but if the scatter roll indicates a zone that's not in the bottom line, the hit is canceled.

This was to reduce the superiority of vibro cannons/tremor cannons crossing beams against titans...


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 Post subject: Re: Tremor Cannon vs Bellygun question
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:37 pm 
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scream wrote:
IIRC, this question about Scattering for vibro cannons/tremor cannons was asked by Kotrin few years ago and zap13 replied that you still scatter but if the scatter roll indicates a zone that's not in the bottom line, the hit is canceled.

This was to reduce the superiority of vibro cannons/tremor cannons crossing beams against titans...


Hi!

That's a good point. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Tremor Cannon vs Bellygun question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:47 am 
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I only just read this. I like that rule, I think it will help balance the vibro-cannon. Thanks scream.


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