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Baneblade

 Post subject: Baneblade
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:06 am 
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Is it just me or is the Baneblade underpowered? I've played a bunch of games with them now and they have never lived up to the awesome reputation they have in the fiction.
If you compare them to the Skullhamma, they both have the same main cannons. Okay the Baneblade gets two las cannons and +8 CAF. The Skullhamma gets 1+ save all around, 15 cm advance (vs 10cm for the Baneblade) 3x charge and can carry 5 stands of infantry and +4 CAF. Sounds to me like the Skuhamma is at least as good of a deal, but it only costs 100pts vs the Baneblades 225. I don't think that the answer is to reduce it's points though, Baneblades are supposed to be badass. My thought is that the main cannons should hit on 3+.
What do you guys think?


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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:30 pm 
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The Points Formula solves that problem.

Under that, both the Baneblade and Skullhamma have a cost of 205. Admittedly, this is the pre-tweak-run value as I have not yet gone through those lists for the tweaks, but they should still be similar.

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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:20 am 
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Okay, that makes sense. I'd rather have a Baneblade that lived up to the 225 points though. I read the book "Baneblade" by Guy Haley, and that badass tank bears little resemblance to the ones I've played on the battlefield. If they hit on 3+ they would be much more like the deadly tanks they're supposed to be. What would that do to their points cost?


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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:24 am 
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Oh, heh. Yeah, don't compare how something works in a novel to how it works on the table. In a novel, it hits, misses, and does exactly as much damage as the author wants it to do. These amounts and frequencies rarely have any relevance with the reality of in-game performance, which is largely determined by how lucky you are with the dice.

Also, your first post missed a few things that the Baneblade has going for it that the Skullhamma does not. First, the Baneblade's main weapons are in Turrets, which mean they can fire 360 and shoot at Flyers. It also has PD(10) which means that in addition to it's much higher CAF it is nigh invulnerable to Close Combat. Thus it is fairly bad-ass on the table as it is.

Changing the Baneblade's Battlecannon to hit on 3+ would increase the cost to 232.25. Do note that you can only use values from the Points Formula if your entire army uses these points. It is not fair to take some from one source and some from another.

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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:20 am 
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I started reading the first Horus Heresy book which is free on iBooks just now. I laughed when I read a passage that seemed to infer one Marine could take 100 humans. Not in Epic, that's for sure!

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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:58 pm 
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The Bissler wrote:
I started reading the first Horus Heresy book which is free on iBooks just now. I laughed when I read a passage that seemed to infer one Marine could take 100 humans. Not in Epic, that's for sure!


Hi!

I wonder how closer that would be now if you use the new formula comparing IG cost to that of SM?

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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:47 pm 
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There might be a few tweaks to all the super heavies when I look at the guard list for platinum ;)

If GW actually made marines play like they are portrayed in all the stories, marine armies would only ever consist of a squad, not exactly a good way to sell models.


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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:54 pm 
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Anyone remember the Movie Marines list from White Dwarf? It was a rule set for friendly play that had them buffed to the level they are supposed to be in the fluff. Usually it was 10 marines and a character vs an entire standard 40k force. Actually was one of more entertaining things to play (even on the receiving end) and amazingly, actually balanced in comparison to what 40k is now, go figure :)

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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:49 am 
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I hear what you're saying, and yes obviously marines are way underpowered in Epic and regular 40k compared to the background. Marines still "feel" a bit more badass than regular infantry, and I think the Baneblade should "feel" a bit more badass than it currently does. Giving it's main cannosn 3+ to hit is not going to make it ten times deadlier or comparable to how it is in the fiction, but it will make it less likely for a fleet of three of them to spend the whole game without destroying a single tank (as I experienced recently even though I was the Orks). Right now the Baneblade seems hardly worth getting compared to the Shadowsword or the Stormblade.


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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:06 am 
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They have definitely ramped up to power of the bane blade in 40k over the years, the main cannon just used to be a 2" template, now it is a 10" one, and they switched the bolters to heavy bolters.


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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:31 pm 
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That's interesting Mattman. So the existing stats are a hangover from the days when he Banebade wasn't so powerful.


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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:53 am 
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Yeah, not just the Baneblade, lots of things have any increased in power over the years. Part of my plan for platinum is to update stats were appropriate, especially if they have had a power boost.


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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:08 am 
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Okay. That sounds good. What about the Wave Serpent? Regular 40k gives it a much less powerful shield and a decent weapon instead of no weapon.


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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:44 am 
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Haven't looked at wave serpents yet, but what I am doing when there are significant differences between new and old versions of models is to create a new epic version, that way pkayers have a choice playing with the old version for nostalgia reasons or the newer one which is more representative of the current fluff. Falcons are another vehicle which have drastically changed over the years, they have gained better weapons and a turret!


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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:12 pm 
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Hi!

I'm moving this to the platinum section. :)

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