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New Order - Tactical Retreat

 Post subject: New Order - Tactical Retreat
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:17 pm 
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So I've been thinking about play testing a new order, this is very situational but it might be nice to try out..

New Order - Tactical Retreat
There are just sometimes on the battlefield you know you are over matched or out flanked and in danger of being wiped out. At times like this it takes a strong commander to rescue the troops and get them to safety. You have to time it just right otherwise the enemy could push forward and catch you as you retreat. Tactical retreats aren’t just units falling back in disarray like fall back orders, they provide cover to each other as they retreat and counter attack weak points in enemy formations, whilst moving backwards.
Placed as per any other order, the tactical retreat allows you to undertake the following –
• Move up to double normal movement value away from enemy units.
• It doesn’t allow any firing in any of the phases.
Disengaging from combat is fraught with danger and is extremely difficult to reflect this, the order is only fully successful if a morale test is passed.
• If the morale test is passed then each model in the detachment is moved up to double their normal movement allowance.
• If the morale test is failed then each model in the retreating detachment must take a saving throw with a 0 to save modifier, to reflect the broken ranks of the retreating detachment being overrun. The surviving models in the detachment are then moved up to double their normal movement allowance.
A tactical retreat really is a last gasp gambit to try and save a unit.
If a detachment is trying to retreat from another unit with a higher pinning class, then if the morale test is unsuccessful, a cumulative -1 TSM applies to the save they are required to take. E.g. one pinning class higher -1 TMS, two classes above then it is at -2 TSM.
If you are charged whilst retreating, which often you will find, either from the enemy unit might catching you up or you get engaged from another direction. In this instance take a morale test, if passed you fight normally, if failed you fight with a -3 CAF.

Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: New Order - Tactical Retreat
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:45 pm 
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Kind of has been done. In SM1 and 2 you had Order Counters [and we have always used them, as we added Activation with SM1 as we were long time gamers] ... 4 Counters :

CHARGE
ADVANCE
FIRST FIRE
FALLBACK

When using the FALLBACK Counter, the entire unit, has to move at least 4cm away from the enemy.
They must move. 4cm up to their Charge rate.
They cannot fire.
And the Unit gets a -1 to enemy fire. As the unit is trying to break contact, firing the smoke GLs on their vehicles, using every fold in the ground as cover, evading fire, etc., while falling back.
No morale test was required ...


So you may be "reinventing the wheel" so to speak ...

Note the GLs on the plastic Rhino
Attachment:
DSCF6731.JPG
DSCF6731.JPG [ 145.28 KiB | Viewed 1229 times ]
in the pic ... you'll find those on Land Raiders and other AFVs as well. Just like on real world AFVs.

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 Post subject: Re: New Order - Tactical Retreat
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:26 am 
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Legion 4 wrote:
Kind of has been done. In SM1 and 2 you had Order Counters [and we have always used them, as we added Activation with SM1 as we were long time gamers] ... 4 Counters :

CHARGE
ADVANCE
FIRST FIRE
FALLBACK

When using the FALLBACK Counter, the entire unit, has to move at least 4cm away from the enemy.
They must move. 4cm up to their Charge rate.
They cannot fire.
And the Unit gets a -1 to enemy fire. As the unit is trying to break contact, firing the smoke GLs on their vehicles, using every fold in the ground as cover, evading fire, etc., while falling back.
No morale test was required ...


So you may be "reinventing the wheel" so to speak ...

Note the GLs on the plastic Rhino
Attachment:
DSCF6731.JPG
in the pic ... you'll find those on Land Raiders and other AFVs as well. Just like on real world AFVs.


Hi L4!

NetEpic made the fallback order an involuntary one, so you can not issue it to a unit by choice? Its got different wording as well by the looks of it.

Can you issue advance or charge orders to units so they can retreat from a battle?

We've had a number of instances where a unit was completely over whelmed by something it couldn't beat but just had to sit there and die. It was kind of to address this situation.


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 Post subject: Re: New Order - Tactical Retreat
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:11 pm 
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Yes, you can move any direction with Adv or Chg orders ... the advantage of Fallback is you get the -1 to enemy incoming fire. Because you are evading, popping smoke, etc., you are trying to break contact, disengage, etc., ... With Adv or Chg you may just be maneuvering to a better position to support by fire, or move into a position to get better LOS/FOF, flanking fire, etc., ...

You should usually never have to just sit there and die. Die in Place (DIP). Unless of course you are completely surrounded. And there is no route of egress out. But you can use FA, CAS, etc., to make a "gap" and even send a relief force if available.

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 Post subject: Re: New Order - Tactical Retreat
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:16 am 
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As far as I am aware, and as L4 stated above, neither Advance nor Charge orders require moving toward the enemy. While Charge orders are required for entering CC, entering CC is not a requirement of being on Charge orders.

While NEG has changed Fall Back into an involuntary state, you could try playing it the other way. Make sure you discuss this with your opponent first though.

Quote:
Can you issue advance or charge orders to units so they can retreat from a battle?

Negative. In NEG no formation is allowed to voluntarily leave the battlefield. Well, except for some versions of Flyer rules. The whole point of the forces being on the battlefield at all is to fight and win - or die trying. Figuring out when a formation is ready to leave is what Morale rules are there for.

That said, a detachment would be allowed to use Charge orders to move away from an untenable situation (assuming they are not pinned or surrounded) and move to a different location on the battlefield.

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 Post subject: Re: New Order - Tactical Retreat
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:26 am 
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Sorry getting confused on this one, using NetEpic Gold rules as the basis (these ideas are for Platinum edition really but I use NEG as the basis for them) can someone give answers to these scenarios -

- Two infantry units of same pinning class in close combat. My thought was neither side can escape? They both count as being on charge orders to allow disengaged models into contact. This is to the death basically??
- Tank with infantry unit. The tank can escape if they want. The infantry unit cannot as they count as pinned by a class higher than them.

Is NetEpic Platinum going to review the fallback options for units?


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 Post subject: Re: New Order - Tactical Retreat
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:10 pm 
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I'm not sure how NEG handles those 2 situations ... I'll PM Primarch ...

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 Post subject: Re: New Order - Tactical Retreat
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:06 pm 
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Enderel wrote:
- Two infantry units of same pinning class in close combat. My thought was neither side can escape? They both count as being on charge orders to allow disengaged models into contact. This is to the death basically??
- Tank with infantry unit. The tank can escape if they want. The infantry unit cannot as they count as pinned by a class higher than them.

As I understand NEG, you are correct on both of those. In either case, the Infantry are stuck until the foe leaves (Vehicle) or dies (Infantry).

Enderel wrote:
Is NetEpic Platinum going to review the fallback options for units?

I have no idea. You may want to propose exactly that in the sub-forum for Platinum.

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 Post subject: Re: New Order - Tactical Retreat
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:37 pm 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
Enderel wrote:
- Two infantry units of same pinning class in close combat. My thought was neither side can escape? They both count as being on charge orders to allow disengaged models into contact. This is to the death basically??
- Tank with infantry unit. The tank can escape if they want. The infantry unit cannot as they count as pinned by a class higher than them.

As I understand NEG, you are correct on both of those. In either case, the Infantry are stuck until the foe leaves (Vehicle) or dies (Infantry).

Enderel wrote:
Is NetEpic Platinum going to review the fallback options for units?

I have no idea. You may want to propose exactly that in the sub-forum for Platinum.


Hi!

Magnus us correct on the questions.

As for Platinum, some optional morale modules may be thrown in at some point.

Primarch

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