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Points Formula Rules

 Post subject: Re: Points Formula Rules
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:44 am 
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Completely lost track of this topic.
Has the updated calculation system been put in a spreadsheet yet? Or is it a matter of making your own from the first couple of posts?
Don't suppose anyone else has done it to save me the hassle? ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Points Formula Rules
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:56 am 
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Primarch is all over it Matt! Here's the link: http://www.netepic.org/uploads/2/2/1/0/ ... 7-9-15.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: Points Formula Rules
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:49 pm 
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The Bissler wrote:
Primarch is all over it Matt! Here's the link: http://www.netepic.org/uploads/2/2/1/0/ ... 7-9-15.pdf


Hi!

What Bissler said. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Points Formula Rules
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:30 pm 
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The link that The Bissler provided does show the most recent official current costs for thing, but Mattman was asking about the system itself.

There was a guy that was trying to work up a spreadsheet for the formula itself. He was using Google documents for it. There is a thread about it around here somewhere. I'll see if I can find it again.

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 Post subject: Re: Points Formula Rules
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:38 pm 
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Ah, I'm sure you're right Magnus. If I recall correctly Mattman will be wanting this to construct E:A style formations to allow players of that game to play Net Epic.

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 Post subject: Re: Points Formula Rules
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:49 pm 
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Yeah, looking for a spreadsheet that calculates the points as I want to run my updated stats through them (plus tweak for some of the alterations I am considering).

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 Post subject: Re: Points Formula Rules
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:53 pm 
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I might be able to help you out. I did one up for the alternative IG list that I did. I'll check it matches the current formula and post a copy in the next couple of days.

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 Post subject: Re: Points Formula Rules
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:26 am 
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Here is the Marines tab from my current version of the spreadsheet that I use for calculations. Note that most of the stats are NOT automated, but a few of them are. Specifically, you will have to manually enter values for Model Type, Terrain Access, Move Rate and value, Move note (MvNt), Armor Save and value (including any appropriate modifiers), CAF and value (including any appropriate modifiers), Weapon calculations, and SA values. Everything from Model cost to formation cost is set (for Gold formations anyway). Obviously custom formations will have to be typed in, but you can examine the ones there for the correct format.

Note that only the standard Gold models are correct as of V0.34, though I've updated the Glaive/Fellglaive, Fellblade, & Falchion calculations to current. The models for other Chapters are not up to date. I'll fix that at some point.

Even though it is not automated much, it may still be helpful.


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Points Formula Marines V034.xls [150.5 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Points Formula Rules
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:10 am 
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On another note, I think I've figured out one way to reduce the cost of expensive models, especially those with high CAF values.

Currently the Model Type value is the sum of all Pinning Class values up to the class that that model is of. If that is changed to just being the Pinning Class value for it's specific class, then both Model Type values and CAF values drop significantly for most models. Infantry and Light Artillery (/ Support Weapon) models are not affected as their current Model Type value already equals their Pinning class value (IE, 1). Cavalry and Walker value drops from 3 to 2. Vehicle, Heavy Artillery, and most Flyer values drop from 6 to 3. Super Heavy and Knight values drop from 10 to 4. Praetorian and Titan values drop from 15 to 5.

I've already adjusted costs for this and the results are looking good so far. I'll type those up and get them posted sometime later tomorrow. This will be V0.4.

This change is not included in the file posted just above, nor have I adjusted for activation adjustments as yet, as there has been no discussion on that as yet. See the last post on page 10 of this thread for more on activations.

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 Post subject: Re: Points Formula Rules
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:44 pm 
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I'm starting something new with V0.4. After the cost of the model or formation, I'm listing the amount that the cost has changed and in what direction in relation to the immediately prior version. This is so that people can more easily see which costs have changed in each new iteration of the formula. Let me know if you find this helpful, confusing, or whatever.

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 Post subject: Re: Points Formula Rules
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:44 pm 
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Hi!

I find that very useful, thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Points Formula Rules
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:14 pm 
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Cheers Magnus, that should help.


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 Post subject: Re: Points Formula Rules
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:27 am 
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Sorry I haven't gotten more of the lists typed up and posted, but GOG.com just released Final Liberation and thus most of my day has gone into that great oldie.

On a different topic, that spreadsheet I posted above. The formation costs for Gold that are relevant to that version of the formula (IE, V0.34) start in column AO and run through BH. Columns AB to AL contain what little work I've done so far toward figuring out how to integrate Break Point into model cost. As you can probably tell, they are not complete as yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Points Formula Rules
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:25 am 
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OP updated with change for V0.4.

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 Post subject: Re: Points Formula Rules
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:39 pm 
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I'm having a thought now that the formation building part of the formula is a bit too complicated. Specifically the Break Point section. Simplifying that would help overall, and would make it easier to make variable formations happen.

What I'm thinking about changing it to would be using the full model value for a number of models equal to the BP value, and then a portion of the model value for any remaining models equal to the remaining number of models. For example, a formation with three models would have a BP of 2. Two models would use their full model value and the remaining model would use 1/3rd of it's model value.

This would significantly simplify the Break Point process. Generally, simpler is better.

However, we would have to specify rules for how to apply models with different costs. Should they be split as evenly as possible between the two groups? [Full value group and partial value group.] Should the most (or least) expensive all be put into one group in preference to the other? What about Command models?

I think my preference would be for 'evenly' with single models in a formation (IE, Hellbore, etc) being put into the full value group and Command models being preferentially placed in the full value group.

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