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Optionals Book Thread

 Post subject: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 11:20 pm 
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Since there's been individual threads of discussion about stuff for the final book (new rules, new tables, new minis statted) in the Netepic forum I think we need a central thread where all that stuff can be placed so it doesn't get overlooked.

This might be a good thread to get stickied, hint hint.


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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 12:14 am 
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Eldar unit submission

Name:Eldar Deathspinner
Class: Medium Command tank
Intended role: Carry Farseer, Warlock,Dark Warlock, Great Harlequin, Spiritseer, or Shadowseer.

Image

Move:35
Save:2+(accounted for from holofield & psychic defenses) or 3+ for area effect weapons.
CAF: +7
Weapons:
Deathspinner Psychic lance Range:250 cm Dice:n/a To hit:n/a Save Mod: special
3xShuriken Catapults Range:50cm Dice:1 Hit 4+ Save mod:0

Deathspinner Psychic lance allows any of the above listed special units to apply their psychic abilities at range (up to 250 cm distant) in a burst template area affect, and amplified with a -1 overall modifier*. All targets under the template are subjected to the effect listed. Can also be used to apply positive effects to friendly troops at range.

*-1 modifier is used to adjust to hit rolls of the effect or to adjust enemy armor saves if they apply to one factor worse than they normally are (due to the psychic effect being boosted dramatically by the lance)

Example: Warlock fires the psychic lance at a group of targets 200 cm distant and applies a mind blast.The stated effect is :"The Warlock projects a mind-shredding blast of psychic energy. Target any model within 25 cm and line of sight. On a 4+ it is hit and destroyed without a saving throw. If the target uses a damage template, roll on the head / bridge damage table. This is an ethereal psychic power."

Instead of a single target however, a burst template is laid down at the chosen impact point, and in this case it allows it to hit multiple targets... 4 stands of infantry. Each target would normally require a 4+ to hit without a save. Instead due to the -1 bonus from the lance, the required roll would be 3+ to hit for each target.

Another example: Warlock fires the same psychic lance at the same group of targets 200 cm distant and applies a psychic lock. Those same 4 stands are affected under the burst template, and would normally require a 4+ roll (as described in the Warlock entry for the eldar) to cause the targets to be pinned, but instead they are pinned on a 3+ due to the bonus for the unit.

Eldritch storm however continues to use the 6cm barrage template as normal but knocks down 2 Void/power fields on a hit and inflicts a single hit on any templated unit (titan or other templated figure) with a -3 TSM (instead of a -2 TSM) if no shields are active due to the boosted power from the psychic lance.

Great Harlequins are unable to use psychic powers but are able to triple the range or effect of their mask effects while in the deathspinner. (either/or, not both)
Dread mask All enemies within 30 cm of the Harlequin suffer -1 morale, or all enemies within 10cm get -3 morale.
Mask of Fear:Creates fear in all enemies within 10cm radius.
Rictus Mask: During orders phase, pick up to 1 unit within 30 cm of the Great Harlequin, or 3 units within 10 cm. Unless it passes a morale test the affected units may not be given orders this turn.

Note:The Lance cannot be fired and then have the passenger disembark and use the stand's psychic abilities again or engage in other attacks that turn. The use of the lance is an exhausting exercise and uses all attacks physical or psychic for that stand for the turn.


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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 9:33 pm 
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Hi!

Stickied!

Primarch


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 Post subject: new eldar superheavy propsed
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:18 am 
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Link to a thread proposing a use for the old 3rd edition epic cobra model

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=12243


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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:36 am 
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link to a thread for Dwarf Supreme's d10 based crit tables.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=18270


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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:45 am 
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@Ifurata: how big is this model of the "Eldar Deathspinner" compared to old plastic falcon ?


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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 11:23 am 
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Duz.Holgers Condor glider
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=17676


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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 11:24 am 
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Malcafloor and some tau units
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=17326


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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 3:45 pm 
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scream wrote:
@Ifurata: how big is this model of the "Eldar Deathspinner" compared to old plastic falcon ?

It's about the same size.

The good saves for it are to reflect that it's a command vehicle and protected by both an individual vehicle holofield and the psychic abilities of its passenger.

I'm still trying to figure out the point cost for it though. By way of example, the traktor cannon and the doom diver that the orks use have a lesser range, but a much greater effect in some ways, and a lesser effect in other ways.


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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 4:04 pm 
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Ifurita wrote:
The good saves for it are to reflect that it's a command vehicle and protected by both an individual vehicle holofield and the psychic abilities of its passenger.
I'm still trying to figure out the point cost for it though. By way of example, the traktor cannon and the doom diver that the orks use have a lesser range, but a much greater effect in some ways, and a lesser effect in other ways.


The profile you proposed is actually really over the top. Command vehicles are usually just a standard vehicle with Command or HQ. Falcons-like should have same move than a jetbike, CAF for this should not be so high and weapon range is just amazing. Just giving the ability to model inside to use his power is already a nice feature. If we start with such units for optional book, we'll soonly finish with flying imperators and eldars titans with dual psychic blades...


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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 5:40 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
The good saves for it are to reflect that it's a command vehicle and protected by both an individual vehicle holofield and the psychic abilities of its passenger.
I'm still trying to figure out the point cost for it though. By way of example, the traktor cannon and the doom diver that the orks use have a lesser range, but a much greater effect in some ways, and a lesser effect in other ways.


The profile you proposed is actually really over the top. Command vehicles are usually just a standard vehicle with Command or HQ. Falcons-like should have same move than a jetbike, CAF for this should not be so high and weapon range is just amazing. Just giving the ability to model inside to use his power is already a nice feature. If we start with such units for optional book, we'll soonly finish with flying imperators and eldars titans with dual psychic blades...

Im really with scream here. The idea to use these at that distance is for me way over the top. Another thing is the +7 caf and also the 35 cm move. I think that vehicles are more or less never HQ. They are if something command.

If these stats were to stay the cost itself would be staggering...

Screams "idea" with the dual psychic blades would be golden though. ;)

Just my 2 cents.

//Pete

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"Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". " Major General Chesty Puller, USMC


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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 11:53 pm 
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Wasn't that model the proposed replacement for the Prism Cannon? Anyway, does "medium command tank" imply the unit has Command? That would be unusual and very powerful, particularly in a skimmer. Also, as Scream and Pettan noted the abilities seem a bit too good all round, particularly the range and CAF. It would have to be an expensive unit :D


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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 1:52 am 
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scream wrote:
Command vehicles are usually just a standard vehicle with Command or HQ. Falcons-like should have same move than a jetbike.


Actually a Command vehicle has the Command Special Ability. Which means it moves double its base rate normally (as if on charge orders) and fires in the first fire segment. Which is why I didn't use the move rate of a falcon.

zap123 wrote:
Wasn't that model the proposed replacement for the Prism Cannon? Anyway, does "medium command tank" imply the unit has Command? That would be unusual and very powerful, particularly in a skimmer. Also, as Scream and Pettan noted the abilities seem a bit too good all round, particularly the range and CAF. It would have to be an expensive unit :D


I should have clarified this.
Like I mentioned, any vehicle with the special ability Command does not get orders, it just moves at double rate and fires on first fire segment. I meant the 35 cm to reflect its total full movement. If we opted for the falcon move (25cm) as its base, then that would mean it would (as a command vehicle) move at 50cm.

Thus the 35 cm move was intended to be its one and only movement rate, not the base that gets doubled. 30 seemed a little low for a double, 40 seemed a lot too high, 50 was as I mentioned, flat out ridiculous, but 35 seemed reasonable as a doubled move rate for a vehicle with command.

Further, it's intended that only one of these tanks can be used in the entire eldar force.

On the guns, I can see cutting the main gun's range down to say 125 cm. (since most psychic abilities are already 50cm to 75cm range to start with). and I made a huge mistake on the Shurikens, I meant them to be 15 cm (as other vehicle mounted SCs have) not 50. That means the unit only has the lance, and some anti infantry weapons.

As to the reason for the high CAF.... I was taking the cue from the FW grey knight Land raiders and the comparison of other HQ units to their non HQ counterparts (Look at the CAF on the SM HQ assault bikes vs normal assault bikes, and the various HQ teams vs their non HQ counterparts for examples. In most cases the CAF is significantly higher than their non-HQ counterparts)

Now, that said, I remember reading in a Citadel journal that the GK land raider (redeemer?) had a CAF of +6 or +7 and had a similar save level due to the shrouding effect from the GKs on board.(Actually I seem to remember them having an invulnerability save plus a normal save) I'm sort of assuming that if the GK can pull those sorts of numbers from inside a tank (remember they're inside and still shrouding), then why should the eldar's elite not be able to pull nearly the same sort of numbers for their own. And remember, they can have multiple LRs like that on the field while this is limited to a single unit). But I'm open to suggestions, what do you think would be agreeable for the CAF and still be equitable to a GK Land raider?



Speaking of the command ability, the Eldar Command Falcon does exist. It has a specific model. Does that mean that that model moves at 50cm (25 cm base... doubled) in Netepic and fire on the first fire segment?

Just saying... it's an issue that should be addressed. The model exists, so what should it be stated like?


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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 2:33 am 
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For movement, keep it simple and list the basic movement you want the unit to have. Convention is to list the basic movement and different options exist for how to play Command so the "pre-doubling" is confusing.

I'm not that bugged by the CAF, it's just one more thing it is outstanding at. However, even restricting it to one per army, the "weapons" ranges are OTT for mine. Even a 125cm range for a Psychic Blast or Psychic Lock is massively powerful....25% chance of a head/bridge hit against a shielded unit at that range is Uber. If you play Command normally, as written it can move 35cm, then pop up and first fire an Eldritch Blast out to 125cm! Against Chaos that would be monsterously killer....50% chance of a GD autokill pretty much anywhere on the board and at a range even Magnus can't respond against. Or a 25% chance of a Bridge hit on a Manta or Warlord.....

I also struggle with the fluff behind enhancing a Harlequinns' mask effect but that's a minor point.

It's your unit and you can write it how you want, but it'd have to cost 500 points before I'd allow my opponent to use it :)

The command Falcon is already represented by the Peregrin option.


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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 6:37 pm 
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Didnt even read it all, but I think that the nightspinner should be a falcon with another weapon basically


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