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Charging into CC: Freeform vs Traditional

 Post subject: Re: Charging into CC: Freeform vs Traditional
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:32 am 
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Iterator wrote:
I am not one of the "regulars" but the talk of extensive revisions has brought me out of lurkerdom.


And that is very much welcomed! The more Net Epic players get involved in the debate and let us know their thoughts, the better. Just because you aren't a "regular", it doesn't mean your opinion is worth less than anyone else's. It's better for us all that you contribute, please keep chipping in! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Charging into CC: Freeform vs Traditional
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:04 pm 
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If we don't revert the rule to how it was, you end up with ludicrous situations where units can practically bend the tape measure, circumvent defences, and attack from flank and rear arcs. I don't like that, as I think that it is an abusive way to play the game. If you're setting up an assault, it is logical to take the path of least resistance to get into combat as quickly as possible, be it to avoid excessive casualties, say from a unit on first fire orders.

Under the current rules, you could have the ludicrous situation where a unit wants to charge another unit which is in very close proximity, yet the player can decide to go around the unit and attack it from a different direction using a much longer move because the rules don't prevent it. To my mind, that's really not terribly fair.

I played SM2 and Titan Legions for years, and never had any problems with the old rule. Of course, it won't be perfect, but it's a lot better than the current proposition in my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging into CC: Freeform vs Traditional
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:24 pm 
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Haven't had a chance to comment on this till now, but speaking as someone just coming into NE, I just assumed that charges had to be as straight as possible. Then, upon being informed that the rules as written say you can take a round-about path, I assumed that even if you do that, the target can still snap fire at you.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging into CC: Freeform vs Traditional
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:28 pm 
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Well, if NE had proper zone of control rules the whole thing would be moot as units that close to you would be forced to enter CC or retreat, but it doesn't and probably can't. I've entertained the possibility of extending pinning out to say 5 cm radius, but I expect there would be significant balance impacts.

The direct charge rule does have the virtue of simplicity. I just don't like it aesthetically, and that's probably not a good enough reason to leave it off.


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 Post subject: Re: Charging into CC: Freeform vs Traditional
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:45 pm 
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Agreed, glad to see more people participating. Heck, I'm 'new' here myself. While I've been playing SM2 since it came out, I only found out about NetEpic about a year ago or so.

I just reread what I posted the last time, and I can see how it could sound hostile. It wasn't intended that way. I just strongly believe in the Traditional way for this issue. (As should be obvious from the fact that I call it 'Traditional' even though NE has been doing it the other way for 10+ years.)

Adding ZOC rules could be a good idea. Well, expanding them, as it actually already does have them, to a limited extent. See the Net Epic Gold Core Rules, page 18, 2) Activating Units, third paragraph.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging into CC: Freeform vs Traditional
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:24 pm 
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Hi!

Well, it seems back to traditional is "favored".

Hammer out a consensus and give me the final wording.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging into CC: Freeform vs Traditional
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:47 am 
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I would say to just use the old wording, but that could have issues that we'd best avoid. Thus I'll propose using one of these (or something similar)...

A. When a formation is being moved so as to enter close combat with another formation, the attacking formation must be moved along the most direct route available to them. If there is terrain that reduces or blocks movement, then the formation may bypass said terrain if there is another route to the target. In any event, the formation being charged must be attacked from the firing arc that the attackers started in where possible.

B. When a formation is being moved so as to enter close combat with another formation, the attacking formation must be moved along the most direct route available to them, unless the target formation is of a higher Pinning Class. If there is terrain that reduces or blocks movement, then the formation may bypass said terrain if there is another route to the target. In any event, the formation being charged must be attacked from the firing arc that the attackers started in where possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging into CC: Freeform vs Traditional
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:35 pm 
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Prefer A, don't want to have to worry about pinning classes.


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 Post subject: Re: Charging into CC: Freeform vs Traditional
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:08 pm 
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Why not take something from Warhammer 40k and a bit of realism all charged units turn to face their opponents thus they get to fire at them. However the Chargers still get the combat bonus as for a side or rear attack as the charged unit is hurriedly changing position and not set for a charge. But honestly who wouldn't turn to face a ravening horde of attackers from the side or rear.


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 Post subject: Re: Charging into CC: Freeform vs Traditional
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:16 pm 
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I recommend not taking any lessons from 40K, because the two systems are very different, and the rules for 40K are far too convoluted.

Primarch, was a decision ever reached on the wording for this? I know that there was general agreement about how charges needed to be made, but it doesn't seem as though wording was finally sorted out.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging into CC: Freeform vs Traditional
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:46 pm 
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I doubt it was ever sorted out, as nobody posted opinions.

EDIT: Well, not nobody. Primarch did, but nobody else.

EDIT 2: Argh, Mattman did, not Primarch. Sigh. Sometimes I just don't pay enough attention...

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Last edited by MagnusIlluminus on Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging into CC: Freeform vs Traditional
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:55 pm 
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Everyone was probably too in awe of your economy of language :D! Anyway, I don't know why I missed it, but I prefer option A of the two you wrote, as I don't think pinning classes need apply to to this.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging into CC: Freeform vs Traditional
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:24 pm 
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Hi!

We'll go with whatever the people whom comment on this decide.

So far its one vote for "A". :)

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 Post subject: Re: Charging into CC: Freeform vs Traditional
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:12 pm 
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I missed the vote part of this discussion.

A.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging into CC: Freeform vs Traditional
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:44 am 
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Hi!

Two for "A".

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