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Squats: Thurgrimm Strongholds 1.6.1 (Finally!)

 Post subject: Squats: Thurgrimm Strongholds 1.6.1 (Finally!)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:34 am 
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Squats aren't fast, but when they do finally turn up they've usually tunneled up behind your lines when you least expect it.


Originally we were planning only a few minor tweaks to 1.5 to get 1.6 out quickly. What held us up was the discovered of a few 'bigger' problems (AA and Overlords) that required deeper changes than originally thought.

I've been playtesting a wide variety of different AA and Overlord configurations but always needed more testing.

We've decided that now is a good time to release this into the wilds of Taccoms and lets the greater majority test it as hard as they can.


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghols 1.6 (Finally!)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:36 am 
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1.7 Testing Goals:
• New infantry styles. Can any of the infantry choices be spammed to be too powerful? Are any too weak?
• Overlord Overlord Overlord. It’s got a new role and probably needs the most testing. What happens if you take too many? Does the army have enough AT with the changes to Gyrocopters and Overlords.
• Land Trains. Some of the cars might need some changes. Need to test many of the configurations.


I'm 'reasonably certain' that the vast majority of the little tweaks that we've put through are solid choices. It is in the three main areas above that I'm hoping to get the most feedback on.

Looking forward to your feedback and discussion!


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghols 1.6 (Finally!)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:05 am 
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Looks good Elsaurio, I'll crack it out for a game on Friday so I can do a proper review

- Kendall


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghols 1.6 (Finally!)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:10 am 
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JumpingJehovah wrote:
Looks good Elsaurio, I'll crack it out for a game on Friday so I can do a proper review

- Kendall


I'd like to see what an Overlord heavy list can do. Specifically the tactic of:

Overlord moves up into 15cm, heavy bombards.
Retain with bike/bezerker unit and engage the target with the Overlord lending lots of FF support.


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghols 1.6 (Finally!)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:33 am 
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Good to see movement here. Do you have any test games to share?

I am working on the Eldar B-T at the moment but will look to get some games in with this list soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghols 1.6 (Finally!)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:55 am 
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You guys have been busy! Nice one. Looks like an interesting direction. I like the idea of the overlords having to get more in harms way.

My only concern at first glance Bezerkers are now overcosted while warriors remain slightly too expensive but that's all theory hammer at this stage. I'll try to get a game in with this over March. Off the top of my head

Infantry + GW + Leviathan + AA + LA
Thunderers + 2 TFs
10 Infantry/Bezerkers

Bikes
Gyros
Big Gyros/overlord
Overlord
3 x land trains (some with AA)

Looks interesting - I might take that for a spin.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghols 1.6 (Finally!)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:33 am 
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StevekCole wrote:
You guys have been busy! Nice one. Looks like an interesting direction. I like the idea of the overlords having to get more in harms way.

My only concern at first glance Bezerkers are now overcosted while warriors remain slightly too expensive but that's all theory hammer at this stage. I'll try to get a game in with this over March. Off the top of my head


In the old list Bezerkers were pretty good at 175pts, running about not doing anything amazing, but definitely punching above their weight. I'm sure that at 200 pts that they will be acceptable.

Something I wanted to make happen in this list was to make it worthwhile to purchase the extra troops for the infantry to discourage just spamming minimum squads.

So a 200 point Bezerker squad isn't anything to write home about but it gets some serious synergy when you add in three robots for 75 points and then have it pop up in termites or rhinos and engage something soft.

Likewise core warriors are struggling for a purpose but add in some light artillery and you've got a formation that can grab some ruins cover in the middle of the table and hold an objective.

Likewise a Thunderer with two AA guns is a good blitz/goliath guard.

You can pick upgrades for your infantry to make up for weaknesses in the rest of your army. You can also include some of the less-seen Squat choices (rapiers etc) without purchasing a full formation.

Quote:


Infantry + GW + Leviathan + AA + LA
Thunderers + 2 TFs
10 Infantry/Bezerkers

Bikes
Gyros
Big Gyros/overlord
Overlord
3 x land trains (some with AA)

Looks interesting - I might take that for a spin.


Let me know how it turns out!


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghols 1.6 (Finally!)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:46 am 
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Here's my attempt at an 'all comers' army:

6 Warriors 200
Grand Warlord 100
3 Thudd guns 100
1 AA 50
All in Rhinos

6 Thunderers 200
3 Thudd guns 100
1 AA 50
All in Rhinos

6 Bezerkers 200
3 Robots 125
In Termites


6 Mole Mortars 175

5 Gyrocopters 250

Overlord 250
Plus AA 25

Biker guild 225


Goliaths 300

Colossus 450
Two Gyros 100
AA 25
Living Ancestor 50




The Golaiths hang back, and depending on the army the Thunderers guard them. Scouting gyrocopters guard them from any nasty teleporters.

The everything else rumbles forward. The Colossus is a pretty good BTS and should be able to put a dent into anything it shoots at, especially with the Gyrocopters spotting for it. Anything that engages the warriors will be countercharged by the overlord/bikes/gyrocopters for a double-up engage after being prepped by the Goliaths.

Around turn 3 the bezerkers pop up on the enemy blitz to stir trouble. The colossus should be able to take and hold some of the middle objectives and/or take down the opposing BTS.

This army feels more 'squatish' than the balloons/AA/Min bezerk list of before. It's reasonably tough, is fairly dangerous at close range and if you co-ordinate everything right, will be pretty good in a engagement.

(It might be better off splitting the gyrocopters into two groups of 4 though.)


*Army list edited with correct points costs


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghols 1.6 (Finally!)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:14 pm 
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Looks very intresting! I like:
1+ to rally, dwarves should be brave
AA options on WE
New Iron eagles
Intresting options on the Land Train
Thunderers are actually good again!

Just checking on some of the points values though. Your own list says:
6 Bezerkers 200
3 Robots 100
In Termites

Overlord 225
Plus AA 25

Whereas the PDF says 125 for robots and 250 for Overlords? Leviathan upgrade for 175pts looks pretty nice. On current list I think I could go:
Warriors, Leviathan AA
Thunderers, Leviathan AA
Bikes, Grand Warlord
Thunderers, 2 x Thunderfires
2 x Iron Eagles Squadrons
Thudd Guns
Land Train, 2 x bezerker cars, AA
Land Train, 2 x bezerker cars
Land Train, 2 x bezerker cars

Though most of the and train options look quite fun and could be worth a go.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghols 1.6 (Finally!)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:18 pm 
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I think that's a fantastic idea to include the change log with reasons at the bottom of the updated list. Saves people playing from having to scroll through pages of forum posts. Saves some headaches on the threads too with redundant questions. I will implement it for the Necron lists this week also.

List is looking good. I hope to try my Necrons against it soon :)

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghols 1.6 (Finally!)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:28 am 
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Awesome to see the new list out.
Hopefully I can get a game or two using it later this month. (Against anyone except Atensions necrons, haha - stupid necrons)
I agree that your formatting makes it makes it much easier to see the changes from the previous version- well done.


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghols 1.6 (Finally!)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:50 am 
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Mark W wrote:
Looks very intresting! I like:
1+ to rally, dwarves should be brave
AA options on WE
New Iron eagles
Intresting options on the Land Train
Thunderers are actually good again!

Just checking on some of the points values though. Your own list says:
6 Bezerkers 200
3 Robots 100
In Termites

Overlord 225
Plus AA 25


Whereas the PDF says 125 for robots and 250 for Overlords? Leviathan upgrade for 175pts looks pretty nice. On current list I think I could go:
Warriors, Leviathan AA
Thunderers, Leviathan AA
Bikes, Grand Warlord
Thunderers, 2 x Thunderfires
2 x Iron Eagles Squadrons
Thudd Guns
Land Train, 2 x bezerker cars, AA
Land Train, 2 x bezerker cars
Land Train, 2 x bezerker cars

Though most of the and train options look quite fun and could be worth a go.


Right yes, got the points costs wrong there. I'll have to drop a gyrocopter


As for 175pt Leviathans? I better correct that pretty quiiiiiiiiiiiiickly because that's way too cheap.


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Strongholds 1.6.1 (Finally!)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:37 pm 
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Don't you need to state what can be transported in what and how many spaces?

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Strongholds 1.6.1 (Finally!)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:44 am 
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ffoley wrote:
Don't you need to state what can be transported in what and how many spaces?


It's in there. I moved it into a separate format as the list of Squat transports and possible passengers was quite long and was difficult to read.


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Strongholds 1.6.1 (Finally!)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:05 am 
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Slow, deliberate, and arrives with an earth shattering kaboom! What could be more squattish elsaurio!

Inbuilt change log - good!
Change to thunder fires - very good. I like how that dynamic should work. It makes the list design very defensive and very squattish.
Changes to the gyro - very good. Maybe just change it to a gyro canon though as the anti tank canon thathas an ap value could be confusing, but it's a small matter.
Overlord - i think that will be a solid change.

Thanks for taking the timeand making the effort to work through those changes . I know the list took a good hammerin after cancon 15!
Cheers
Jim


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