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Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)

 Post subject: Re: Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:23 pm 
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Elsaurio wrote:
If anyone is interested in how the local modified terrain system works, they are free to read the rules here in the player's pack, page 6.

http://castleassault.net/index.php/epi/


That is very similar to how things are played here terrain wise.
The main difference is the terrain levels, you could class it as we play almost all "built up" terrain as level 3 (I hate it when others say Infinite height).


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 Post subject: Re: Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:48 pm 
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'High enough for anything to hide behind.' ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:01 pm 
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IJW Wartrader wrote:
'High enough for anything to hide behind.' ;)


That's better ;D


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 Post subject: Re: Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:12 pm 
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Interested to see people's opinions, but I do think we'll get a better list in the long run if we look to edit points rather than stats. It's difficult to provide feedback and reports if we're going to have different unit stats for the 2 squat lists.

Bit of patience, guys. We've all lost a few games heavily. My squats got torn apart in one turn by the necrons in a recent tourney, I'm willing to accept its possible to have bad match ups (amtl vs mass Shadowswords/ Shadowswords vs nids?)and sometimes we don't play as well against armies we don't play regularly.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:41 pm 
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So obviously, I couldn't resist having a crack with 5 overlords. Here's a battle report using epic uk lists. http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=30894&p=583982#p583982

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 Post subject: Re: Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:58 pm 
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Hi Gents,

I just noted on the batrep that the netea Overpowered Lords have a ea+1 from their bolter array.

And Ben, its a bit misleading to call overpowered lords a "glass cannon" they have the same dc and armour save as a baneblade. So they would be more accurately described as a floating leman russ company (-).

I look forward to helping you with your play test and changes and even more excited about the possibility of living in a world with no 5 overpowered lord 3k lists at tourneys! Oh the rejoicing! Peace! Peace at last! We peace in our time!

Cheers
Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:59 pm 
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They're really not a floating leman Russ Co (even at 75cm leman Russ get 60 odd % more shots, one on a 2+). However, the huge difference is the Russ Co is 10 strong with inspiring which makes it a totally different assault proposition. This makes them able to hold objectives which overlords are terrible at.

Baneblades certainly aren't great but they're usually fearless and have inspiring which helps on the assault front.

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Last edited by StevekCole on Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:27 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:18 pm 
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Yes, a floating LR Co is a very bad comparison.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:57 pm 
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StevekCole wrote:
They're really not a floating leman Russ Co (even at 75cm leman Russ get 60 odd % more shots, one on a 2+). However, the huge difference is the Russ Co is 10 strong with inspiring which makes it a totally different assault proposition. This makes them able to hold objectives which overlords are terrible at.


Well I agree that it wasn't an ideal comparison ("floating baneblade" seems much more apt), but I'd also say the huge difference should be that the Russ Co is almost 3 times the cost.

In other words the reason Jim's comparison wasn't a great one was because he was comparing it to something hugely more expensive (260% of the cost of an Overlord), rather than because the thing he was comparing it to gets 40% more shots (note, not 60%) at 75cm.

So the Leman Russ company isn't a great thing to compare an overlord to, but even this imperfect example of spending 160% more points spent to only gain 40+% more long range shooting does highlight once again the difficulty of setting a fair price on a unit with so many guns.

IMHO the Overlord is probably going to eventually go up in price to justify its list of weapons, or drop some of its weapons (and perhaps points cost) to a more widely acceptable level, or remain controversial and difficult to approve .

As I said, that prediction is just IMHO :)


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 Post subject: Re: Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:20 pm 
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Matt, totally agree. You'd hope a leman Russ Co would be way better than an overlord for the points! I think bottom line with an overlord is is really solid if you have a shooting meta but no better than ok if you have an assault meta. I certainly didn't find bringing 5 did me any favours at all.

On the points front, I've said it before and I'll say it again, in my opinion (obvs) they're no way as good as a warhound at 275. Overlord has better armour and shooting, warhound is 1+ activation, fearless, walker (so cover to hit mod), and much faster.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:47 pm 
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Groan... i almost wrote in my original post that there is no need to explain its a bad analogy bevause i already knew it was. My only point being that it is not a gass cannon dc3 4++.

I am not getting into the comparison debate. we have done that to death here and it is the realm of mathletes and pedants.


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 Post subject: Re: Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:26 pm 
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Lol, sorry Jim. Want trying to go down that route either! Agree unit comparison achieves nothing but endless debate. :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:04 pm 
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Oh phew! We can be friends now if you want? Hahaha
Happy valentines day!


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 Post subject: Re: Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:55 pm 
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question - if the spamming of the Overlord is such a concern, why not shift them into the War Engine section of the list? its a WE after all...and the restriction on points available for WE will force players to make choices and the points restriction will limit the max number u can have if u decide to spend all ur WE points on Overlords...

disappointing to have to wade thru all the terrain waffle in a thread about Squats...could have been taken to a more appropriate part of the forum...

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 Post subject: Re: Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:05 pm 
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Frosthammer wrote:
question - if the spamming of the Overlord is such a concern, why not shift them into the War Engine section of the list?


Essentially, (I imagine) it's because there is already one of the largest selections of War Engines in what is already a relatively spartan squat list, combined with them being an army that traditionally has such large units like the Land Train, colossus and Overlords/gyrocopters as rather iconic components in it's force, alongside the stunty biker gangs.

If you make too many limits on their war machines they run into the danger of losing some of their flavour, so I assume it was the intent of making the War Machine section focus on the *BIG* war machines and the somewhat smaller/lighter stuff sneaking on by. Perhaps the overlord does need limiting, through a one-per-brotherhood "air wing" gyros and overlords section or some other way, but a choice that pigeon-holes squats into taking too many infantry and not enough war engine stuff is just as dangerous as over-permissive options (IMO, of course).


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