Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 67 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Orders Militant - Adepta Sororitas 2018 2.1 (Developmental)

 Post subject: Orders Militant - Adepta Sororitas 2018 2.1 (Developmental)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:39 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:35 am
Posts: 3322
Location: Norrköping, Sweden.
Hi everyone. Here's the first draft of the new Sisters of Battle list that I've created.

It's obvious that the list is a copy of the EpicUK list + som extra toys. The rationale behind this is that i think it's a good idea to have the basic list structure and stats close to an already approved list that now gets to see tournament action (atleast in the UK). This will mean that we can get some good info on how it's performing in a competitive enviroment and adjust stats/points/structure from there.
The extra toys (The living saint, Emperor Chapels & Cathedral of Purification) are in to give the list some cool and funky units which gives great modeling opportunities to players and to provide for an opportunity to play the list more then one way (aggresive rhino rushing assaults).

Please let me know what you think of the list ASAP. I think we can move this to developmental status quite soon if no big issues come up.

EDIT 2018-10-23

Version 2.01 uploaded. Added missing Act of faith rules.
Changed transport upgrade for Dominions to be in line with rest of the list.
Changed cost of Celestian upgrade for Retrributors from +15 to +10 to be in line with EpicUK list.

EDIT 2018-11-02

Stats on Living Saint fixed
Repentia Sister stats brought in line with EpicUK list
Complete reformatting of documents (not final look)

EDIT 2018-11-15
Version 2.1 uploaded.
Choir cost decresead to 225 from 250.
Coven lost Priest and Superior upgrade.
Emperors Chapels movement increased to 20cm from 15cm.
Emperors Chapels Transport Capacity increased from 4 to 8.
Emperors Chapels added as upgrade to Missions, Retributors and Repentance for 125.
New list structure with Core, Support and Axiliary formations (1:2:2)
Retributor weapons change to Heavy Bolter & Heavy Flamer from current 2xHeavy Bolters.
Added missing upgrades.
Cathedral of Purification priced decreased to 550 from 650.


Attachments:
Version 2.1.pdf [64.37 KiB]
Downloaded 75 times
SoB reference sheet 2.1.pdf [58.46 KiB]
Downloaded 84 times

_________________
https://epic40ksweden.wordpress.com/

"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam


Last edited by mordoten on Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant - Adepta Sororitas 2018 2.0 (Experimenta
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:28 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 6:42 am
Posts: 485
Location: Birchip, Australia
Hey Mordoten,

Thanks for for posting but the special rules didn't come through.

_________________
I have 4 laptops in this room and cannot play a pixel pushing tabletop simulator on any of them.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant - Adepta Sororitas 2018 2.0 (Experimenta
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:56 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:35 am
Posts: 3322
Location: Norrköping, Sweden.
Oh darn, will fix that tomorrow!

_________________
https://epic40ksweden.wordpress.com/

"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant - Adepta Sororitas 2018 2.0 (Experimenta
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:30 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:18 pm
Posts: 173
The way Covens are the exception to how the “transport” upgrade works and Retributors are the exception to how the “specialist” upgrade works is very clunky and does not really offer much in the way of balancing.

My first suggestion would be to go back to the old armemment load out of Siters having one Heavy Bolter and Retributors having two Heavy Flamers. As it is there’s no reason to take Retributors.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant - Adepta Sororitas 2018 2.0 (Experimenta
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:38 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:35 am
Posts: 3322
Location: Norrköping, Sweden.
RugII wrote:
The way Covens are the exception to how the “transport” upgrade works and Retributors are the exception to how the “specialist” upgrade works is very clunky and does not really offer much in the way of balancing.


Changed Dominions to just have transport rule like everybody else.
Not sure what you mean by Specialist being different. Retributors sisters gets cheaper upgrades than Battle sisters. Changed the Celestian upgrade to be +10 points like in the Epic Uk list. Care to ellaborate on that comment?

RugII wrote:
My first suggestion would be to go back to the old armemment load out of Siters having one Heavy Bolter and Retributors having two Heavy Flamers. As it is there’s no reason to take Retributors.


Retributors have FF3+ instead of Battle sisters 4+. They also have 2xAP5+ shots at 30cm each instead of 1xAP4+ IC at 15cm like battle sisters do. They also have cheaper upgrades than battle sisters.
All thoose things seems incentives enough to take them. They can potentially hurt inf/LV:s way more than battle sisters and have a better range for it.
IMO they're a pretty good "Prep and/or support" unit as they are stated now. If we changed them around they have to get closer to do the job of prepping formations. And the list would have fewer 30cm shots (8 instead of 12) if Battle Sisters got them.
I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but i would like to argue the issue a little before i decided to implement it or not. :-)

First post updated with version 2.01 plus changelog.

_________________
https://epic40ksweden.wordpress.com/

"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant - Adepta Sororitas 2018 2.0 (Experimenta
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:06 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:45 pm
Posts: 158
the points are missing. I take it this list/thread replaces the other thread for Sisters of Battle

_________________
https://oxfordwargaming.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant - Adepta Sororitas 2018 2.0 (Experimenta
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:17 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:18 pm
Posts: 173
Scutarii and I have been testing the various SoB lists for a couple of years, the change to Retributors was pretty sudden and unexpected.

As you’ll see from the comments which have been made during development the list suffers from the fact that you only need to take Missions, Covens, and Lightenings to make an optimised list. Retributors don’t offer enough anymore above and beyond Missions or Covens to make them worthwhile, with 30cm Heavy Bolters they’ll usually double to get in range, and then infantry are frequently in cover so their 2 shots are hitting on 7+. At ff3+ Retributors want to get within 15cm to offer ff support fire as well as shoot, the range of heavy flamers was enough.

I think it’s better if there is either a standard upgrade, or bespoke upgrades listed with the unit, having both in a list is messy. I can see that the Dominion upgrade to Retributors is cheaper than the “specialist” upgrade, but I don’t think the extra formatting etc adds enough to the list to justify it.

Personally I think the Mission and Inquisitor should be the only two core choices, and points and stat lines need tweaking throughout the list to sort out internal and external balance issues. Sisters came 1st and 3rd at the Into the Breach Tournament, I suspect they’re going to consistently finish high and become the new Krieg.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant - Adepta Sororitas 2018 2.0 (Experimenta
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:49 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:35 am
Posts: 3322
Location: Norrköping, Sweden.
chivalrynsorcery wrote:
the points are missing. I take it this list/thread replaces the other thread for Sisters of Battle


Thanks, fixed that. Theres seems to be a formatting problem where if i add the Act of faith text to the first page the point colum go missing omn the second page. Have to look into it a little and see if i can fix it.

Yes, this list would replace the old one.

_________________
https://epic40ksweden.wordpress.com/

"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant - Adepta Sororitas 2018 2.0 (Experimenta
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:13 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:35 am
Posts: 3322
Location: Norrköping, Sweden.
RugII wrote:
Scutarii and I have been testing the various SoB lists for a couple of years, the change to Retributors was pretty sudden and unexpected.

As you’ll see from the comments which have been made during development the list suffers from the fact that you only need to take Missions, Covens, and Lightenings to make an optimised list. Retributors don’t offer enough anymore above and beyond Missions or Covens to make them worthwhile, with 30cm Heavy Bolters they’ll usually double to get in range, and then infantry are frequently in cover so their 2 shots are hitting on 7+. At ff3+ Retributors want to get within 15cm to offer ff support fire as well as shoot, the range of heavy flamers was enough.


Hmmm... Yeah that is a good argument you're making. It is an assault list after all so there won't be much standing around and shooting a la IG/Skitarii lists.

RugII wrote:
I think it’s better if there is either a standard upgrade, or bespoke upgrades listed with the unit, having both in a list is messy. I can see that the Dominion upgrade to Retributors is cheaper than the “specialist” upgrade, but I don’t think the extra formatting etc adds enough to the list to justify it.


well, it's certainly more neat and tidy with the same upgrades across the list.

RugII wrote:
Personally I think the Mission and Inquisitor should be the only two core choices, and points and stat lines need tweaking throughout the list to sort out internal and external balance issues. Sisters came 1st and 3rd at the Into the Breach Tournament, I suspect they’re going to consistently finish high and become the new Krieg.


Is it that strong? Thats kinda worrying. What would you say needs most work, list structure, stats or points?

It would be great to hear some opinions from other UK players that has faced this list in tournaments. Anyone who cares to share their opinions?

_________________
https://epic40ksweden.wordpress.com/

"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant - Adepta Sororitas 2018 2.0 (Experimenta
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:05 am 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:18 pm
Posts: 173
The In to the Breach tournament thread has quite a lot of Sisters of Battle discussion in, it’s certainly worth a look.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant - Adepta Sororitas 2018 2.0 (Experimenta
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:45 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 11:51 am
Posts: 274
As one of the players who played SoB at ITB, I found them totally fine.

Seems to have been the general reaction, theres some other feedback here:
viewtopic.php?f=88&t=33522&start=90

I’d say most importantly the list doesn’t rely on tactics that leave you feeling helpless(I.e Necrons) or a few units that feel unstoppable(I.e Krieg Gorgons/Speed freak huge war bands.)

Like a lot of armies, there are about 4-5 really good units, and just taking these does lead to a strong list. I think with a bit of work around boosting some of the other formations, some more fun and variety can be brought into the list whilst keeping the balance.
(That way the play experience isn't just players learning to play with/against this particular build.)

or example:
(1) Emperors cathedrals. Very like a Decimator, but crucially have 30cm(not 45) on the barrage weapon. On such a slow WE this makes a huge difference. As Decimators are generally regarded as a decent but not great option, maybe this could be a tried and tested starting point for making them worth taking? It'd be great to see these back in the list as they are really characterful.

(2) Seraphim do look like Scourges but less good (The extra armour and CC doesn't compensate for the lack of shooting and less FF.) for the same points at the moment. Maybe a 25pt drop might make them more worthwhile?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant - Adepta Sororitas 2018 2.0 (Experimenta
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:46 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:45 pm
Posts: 158
having already played around 8-10 games with the Sisters previous version by Mard, Your retracing back to the beginning with the list. The UK list lacked flavor, list version 1.5 or so has flavour. Why change up again. Mard list (1.5 or so) had decent point changes gave options to units.
Are we going to have to retest with the 2.0 list to get approval. Also will the ArmyForge selector for NETEA be updated with the new Sisters points and options.

_________________
https://oxfordwargaming.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant - Adepta Sororitas 2018 2.0 (Experimenta
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:13 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 6:42 am
Posts: 485
Location: Birchip, Australia
Hey chivalrynsorcery,

I had been thinking of you and how this would let you down. I know you've been doing test games and taking time to write up battle reports. Its greatly appreciated. The UK guys already have an approved version of the list and it just came 1st and 3rd in their first tournament. It would be a great help to keep them close to each other as it provides a lot of feedback from a highly active tournament scene. Hope this doesn't dishearten you to play the Sisters. They are a fun army and probably my favorite of the inquisition lists.

Once the dust is settled and Mordoten gives me the okay his happy with the list to start testing ill update the army builder file.

Thanks again chiv.


Norto

_________________
I have 4 laptops in this room and cannot play a pixel pushing tabletop simulator on any of them.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant - Adepta Sororitas 2018 2.0 (Experimenta
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:58 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:45 pm
Posts: 158
hi,

thanks Norto. i have been toying with the list for our next Tournament at Fall In. So if this version 2, is the new deal, then i can accomadate that. I can use the epicuk list on armyforge then modify accordingly. The US scene for epic is different than Uk and Australia. I normally take a list to make it challenging, not necessarily to win, but to try out different combos and units. The Sisters have lots of options and are fun but challenging to play. Eventually I'll have my other 24 penitent engines painted so i can run 36 of them, just for fun.

Kal

_________________
https://oxfordwargaming.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant - Adepta Sororitas 2018 2.0 (Experimenta
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:20 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 2:21 am
Posts: 591
Location: Australia
I keen to see play tests happen for the list.
But I will also admit that I think the Epic UK list is bland and without flavor, which is how I feel about a lot of the lists.
Love that the Living Saint is still in the list.


For the rest I'm pretty disappointed it's reverted back to what it was.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 67 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net