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Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave List ver 1.2.2

 Post subject: Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave List ver 1.2.2
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:57 am 
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I have designed a thematic Ministorum Army list called the Ministorum Homeworld defence Conclave.

The list makes a sisters based army more viable to actually get somewhere in tournaments, without being OP. I have never seen Sister in a tournament, except a fun one I ran last year, where I told everyone to bring along the lists they would not normally use in a tournament. Sisters and a Ghazghul warhorde that should have been a cult of speed list were just some of the lists there.

People have told me that Sister are just too weak for tournaments., not fast enough, weapons are too short ranged, and units are mildly expensive. I have overcome this by adding in 2 separate support groups, and rolling in the normal support formations such as Penitent Engines, and Hereticus Warbands into the core choices.

There are only 3 War Engine options, the Cathedral, the paired Chapels and a repentance light assault jump titan. The Space Ship, the Imperial Navy and War engines are still 1/3 of list cost. Arbites and Planetary Guard now make up the support forces. A single choice from each for each core formation. Since Onslaught have their new PPF range of Planetery Police Force minis, I could not resist putting them in the list.

No support formation is too large or over powerful. The price to reinforce the basic arbite patrols can be quite restrictive if you want to make a formation of 12 units + transports.

I have allowed for certain support units to be included to give the sisters some range, or mobility, they have previously lacked. Sentry guns with scout, and arbitor bike patrols for arbites, Artillery and Leman Russ squadrons for the planetary guard. Many of these have restrictions - that being a basic formation choice must be taken in that support lost for each advanced support choice. This is discussed more in the support section of the list.

I think the list can work well. I just have to refine it, have people try to break it by making OP lists, and seeing if it is too OP, and whether certain formations/units need price increases, or a reduction in their skills/stats, etc.

Check it out and let me know if you like it.

Deb


Chris a mate of mine mentioned that I forgot to add the limits for Arbites and Planetary Guard that I mentioned. I have added them. I had altered Saint Celestine in this version and given her an ability, however she never really got to use it, and the points increase I made for were not viable since she became target number 1.

1.1 version changes:

Made it that you select up to 2 formations from one of the 2 available support lists for each core choice. You may choose 2 choices from the other support choice for your next core choice. With the inbuilt limit of selecting a troop choice from the support options before taking an advance choice like artillery tanks or bikers, Black Maria and so on. This way the list still balance itself out, but you can base it around 1 support choice list, or if the game points are more, you can start mixing the 2 support choices to represent a larger available support base..

I altered the weapons and save stats on a number of formations which seemed too good for the points you pay for them, or if they are free like civilian vehicles. I also removed inspiring from the Cannoness.

1.2 version:

adds in a new light assault War engine/ Titan. The guardian angel is a jumping War engine that has stats similar to a warhound, but is better at close combat and its main ranged weapons follow the sisters theme of flame melta and bolter

Also changed the wording on some of the upgrade options as it was confusing as to what I meant particularly for Arbite reinforcements. Added hunter AA tanks as upgrades for a number of armoured formations, however this would drastically reduce the number of formations you get in a 3000 point force if you took hunters for each formation that can take them. So I would expect most commanders would not swamp the army with them.

1.2.1
Changes - After testing out the army, specifically using Saint Celestine, I have determined that I, and other players might over protect her formation. She is more than often, both the BTS and the Supreme commander. With the Teleport thing, I tend to drop her in on turn 2 or 3, and this means her ability to assist in faithful tests, and allow the supreme commander re-rolls is hampered. Thus I have removed her special ability, and dropped her cost. I also made her a character upgrade rather than a Unit on her own.

I also changed a few stats to represent the nature of some of the units like Seraphim, who can now get 2 more units added for 75 points.

Deathcult Assassins now get FS as they are supposed to be specialist elite close combat warriors akin to Harlequins, Daemonettes, and Wyches.

I gave Saint Celestine RA, as most Big Nasty units like Bloodthirsters, Avatars, Primarchs, etc, get RA even though they might not be WE, and only Infantry with good stats. In 40K, she is supposed to have a 4+invul save, a 2+ armour save, and possibly come back from the dead - time and time again. I have not allowed for the latter, as I think it is impossible and both a silly concept to try to introduce into Epic. Most unit that have an invul save and a 2+ save in 40K tend to get a 4+ RA save in Epic, the Invul save can represent her resilience.

I think this version is probably the best version so far, and allows for the best flexibility in list design. You have to take the basic Sisters Ministorum formations, however now you can choose if you want support from all PPF, all PDF, or a mix of the 2.

Version 1.2.2
In this version, I have finalized all previous formations, fixed typing errors.

I have added in a new individual which can only be taken if you have formations purchased from the Arbitor Support section. The Arbitor Sector House can replace any objective in your half of the table, in a similar manner to Eldar Wraith Gates. It is a fortification, that any side can occupy during the game. It has provides a 4+ RA save for the maximum 6 infantry units that occupy it. Costing 50 points, it cannot be destroyed.

I think the Sector House is thematic. providing a stronghold that the defenders desperately try to defend, lest the enemy get a hold of it and then they have to forcibly evict them to secure your home turf.


Attachments:
Ministorum home world defence Conclave army.docx [26.33 KiB]
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Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave Unit Stats.docx [39.46 KiB]
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Last edited by Deb on Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:40 am, edited 9 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave List ver 1.1 updat
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:01 am 
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I have been looking at some of the other lists out there for Sisters/ Ministorum, and most except for Mard's have only the 2 Sisters War Engines - the Cathedral and the paired Chapels. Mard's list has Titans, however I do not want to make this list too OP or so expensive that it loses its Balanced yet competitive theme.

I am unsure whether to add in titans or knights to make it more popular because that would just make it another Frankenstein's Monster list which allows too many options.

I had tried to develop a list that is set on a Ministorum planet which is the base for a whole sisterhood convent, the local PDF (basic Imperial guard) and Planetary Police Forces (Arbites) all of whom have been activated to defend the planet against an invasion by an enemy either Xenos, Chaos, or recently fallen loyalists (in the case of Blue on Blue forces). Typically there should be no forces from the Space Marines, the Imperial Knights or AMTL on the planet, until later in the war to defend themselves, long after their distress calls have been sent out.

Am I heading in the right direction? Do people want titans, and other big nasties with long ranged MW or TK weapons?

I think it would make the list too OP, and people would complain about facing off against it.

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 Post subject: Re: Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave List ver 1.1 updat
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:27 pm 
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I like to see if we can go without titans or at least the warhound a-go-go crutch so many lists use. However I could easily see giant Ecclesiastical vehicles being in the end, not dissimilar to battle titans in all but name so YMMV. I like what you're thinking here so far.

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 Post subject: Re: Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave List ver 1.1 updat
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:23 am 
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I could add in more War Engines to supplement the Cathedral and Chapels, however with the current Ministorum/sisters theme for their weaponry - Flame Melta and Bolter that still limits the weapons ranges.

If I do add in War Engines to the list, I will probably make them mobile walking temples. They would have to have a decent close combat weapon system, some but not a lot of shields, a moderate, but not huge amount of DC. Probably a similar Critical effect to the Orkasaurus or the Warhound. I would not make the speed faster than 25cm, because the sisters WE are supposed to be flanked by hordes of devout followers ramshackle civilian vehicles who treat it as a walking representation of the Emperor.

Perhaps something with a power flail or Power Sword on one arm, and a choice of a Titan sized Melta Cannon/ Vulcan Mega Cannon or an Inferno Cannon on the other arm. It should have a Heavy bolter array which could have both an AP and an AA stat, and possibly look about as big as a Warhound but look like an imperial knight (just larger). It should be a single unit option per formation rather than a pair, and be priced so you choose between the paired chapels or the new model.

What to call it? Templar, Collosus, Arch Angel?

It is food for thought. I would have to kit bash one, and I would rather it stood tall like a knight rather than crouched a squat like a warhound. Possibly make it look regal like most religious fanatics would envision the emperor to look like in his battle armour.

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 Post subject: Re: Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave List ver 1.1 updat
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:34 am 
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I have decided on what the new unit will have for its stats. name Guardian Angel

Move: 25cm (Jump) Save 5+ (RA), CC 4+, FF4+ Cost: 275 points.
Special rules: Fearless, Jump - can jump over intervening terrain and friendly units, but may not jump over enemy ZOC unless engaging them. Reinforced Armour, DC3, 2 Shields, Critical effect: same crit as for a warhound, however the unit also loses its jump ability and its speed drops to 20cm, subsequent crits destroy it, and all units in 5cm are hit on a 6+.

One of its arms has either a Power Flail (EA +2 attack), or a Smiting Power Sword (EA +1 MW), the other arm has a Titan grade scout weapon chosen from - Vulcan Megabolter, an Inferno Cannon or a Melta Cannon. The light jump assault Titanic walker also has a torso mounted Heavy bolter array which gives it a 3 x range 30cm AP4+/AA5+ shots. The cost of the unit might be a little cheap, so test it a bit and see if it needs a price rise to say 300 points.

Now I have to look for a suitable miniature to represent it.

I am still not sure if there is a need for the unit though.

I have decided to call the possible new WE unit the Guardian Angel. I will be using a slightly modified 40K Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard miniature. At least for the interim.

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 Post subject: Re: Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave List ver 1.1 updat
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:41 am 
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I have updated the list to include the new Guardian Angel Light Assault Titan.

I am not promising the unit will stay, as I think it is not thematic to list. However I realise the list does need some heavy hitting unit to give it more staying power, and add that extra umph to take on mostly War engine lists. The new unit might also work out to be unpopular, and more a waste of points than intended.

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 Post subject: Re: Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave List ver 1.2.1
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:58 am 
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I have been collecting a storm of minis for the new Ministorum army.

I now have about 8,000 points, with quite a few extra formations just waiting on transports to bring the army up to over 12,000 points.

Current Adeptus Sororitus Army collected – 12,140
Core Formations – 7890 Points
425 Pts – Celestians – 1 x Cannoness, 1 x Priest, 4 x Celestians, 1 Immolator, 2 Repressors, Hunter
420 Pts – Mission – Palanrine leading 8 Sisters, 1 Priest, 3 Rhinos, 1 Repressor, 1 Immolator, Hunter
420 Pts – Mission – Palanrine leading 8 Sisters, 1 Priest, 3 Rhinos, 1 Repressor, 1 Immolator, Hunter
375 Pts – Mission – 8 x Sisters, 1 Palantine, 1 Priest, 4 Rhinos, Hunter
350 Pts – Coven – Palantine leading 6 Retributors, Priest, 2 Rhinos, Repressor, Hunter
350 Pts – Retribution – Palantine leading 6 Retributors, Priest, 2 Rhinos, Repressor, Hunter
325 Pts – Retribution – Palantine leading 6 Retributors, Priest, 3 Rhinos, Hunter
400 Pts – Coven – Palantine leading 4 Dominions, Priest, 2 Repressors, Immolator, Hunter
300 Pts – Seraphim Choir – 6 Seraphim stands, 1 Palantine
425 Pts – Seraphim Choir – 8 Seraphim stands, 1 Saint Celestine
300 Pts – Repentance – 6 Repentia stands, 1 Mistress Character, 1 Priest character, 3 Rhinos, Hunter
325 Pts – Repentance – 6 Repentia stands, 1 Mistress Character, 1 Priest character, 2 Rhinos, Repressor, Hunter
300 Pts – Exorcism – 5 Exorcist Tanks, Hunter
300 Pts – Exorcism – 5 Exorcist Tanks, Hunter
300 Pts – Exorcism – 5 Exorcist Tanks, Hunter
300 Pts – Exorcism – 5 Exorcist Tanks, Hunter
300 Pts – Exorcism – 5 Exorcist Tanks, Hunter
300 Pts – Exorcism – 5 Exorcist Tanks, Hunter
270 Pts – Penitent Engines – 6 Penitent Engine
305 Pts – Penitent Engines – 7 Penitent Engine
200 Pts – Crusade – Priest Character, 10 Redemptionists, 5 civilian vehicles
450 Pts – Inquisitorial Warband – Inquisitorial Character, 8 Inquisitorial Warrior Storm Troopers, Priest, 4 Valkyries, 2 Vultures
450 Pts – Inquisitorial Warband – Inquisitor leading 8 Storm Troopers, 3 Chimeras, Landraider, Hunter

Support Formations – 2425 Points
PPF (1375)
200 Pts – Arbites Patrol – Proctor leading 6 Arbites, 3 Rhinos
200 Pts – Arbites Patrol – Proctor leading 6 Arbites, 3 Rhinos
200 Pts – Interdiction Team – Proctor leading 6 Arbitors (teleport)
200 Pts – Interceptor Patrol – Proctor leading 6 Arbite Bikers
300 Pts – Black Marias – 5 Black Marias, Hunter
275 Pts – Riot Team – Proctor leading 6 Riot Squad Arbitors, 3 Repressors
PDF (1050)
300 Pts – Armoured Fist Platoon – Lieutenant, 9 Guardsmen, 5 Chimeras
250 Pts – Infantry Platoon – Lieutenant, 11 Guardsmen
250 Pts – Artillery Squadron – 3 Basilisk
250 Pts – Tank Squadron – 3 Leman Russ Tanks

War Engines and Aircraft (max 1/3 points) – 1825 points
350 Points – Emperor’s Chapels – 2 Emperor’s Chapel War Engines
500 Points – Cathedral of Purification – 1 Cathedral of Purification War Engine
275 Pts – Guardian Angel – 1 Guardian Angel Light Assault Jump Titan
150 Pts – Lightning Squadron – 2 Lightning Fighters
150 Pts – Lightning Squadron – 2 Lightning Fighters
200 Pts – Avenger Squadron – 2 Avenger Strike Fighters
200 Pts – Avenger Squadron – 2 Avenger Strike Fighters


I know there is a lot there, however I plan to be able to mix and match the formations for each battle. This way I can have an army that is not predictable, does not get boring, and also will be fun and challenging to paint.

I have already painted the Seraphim formation with Saint Celestine, a Sisters Mission with an Immolaror, a Repressor, 3 Rhinos, and a Hunter; and an Exorcism Formation with 5 Exorcists and a Hunter. I also remodelled the figurine I am using for the Guardian Angel. Its power sword got lost, so I put a knife blade on it, but this looked ridiculous. I replaced the blade with a much larger sword blade (a spare one) from a Lamashti Pleasure Demon - Mierce Miniatures.

Now it looks like the mini is over compensating, but it would have a longer reach with a sword blade the is larger than itself.

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 Post subject: Re: Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave List ver 1.2.1
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:17 pm 
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Things have been going really well with my painting for this army. So far I have painted an Exorcist tank formation with Hunter, a Mission battle sisters formation with 3 Rhinos, a Repressor, a Hunter and am Immolator. I have also painter a Seraphim Choir led by Saint Celestine, and for my arbites I am busy painting an Arbites Patrol with 6 arbitor squads, and 3 rhinos and an Arbitor Bikes formation of 6 biker stands. The arbites look really detailed as I am painting them up as Judge Dredd style Mega City 1 Judges.

Hopefully I will have both Arbitor Patrols, the Black Marias and the Arbitor bikers finished by Monday (Easter long weekend), and perhaps start on the Repentia, and the Retributors formatons and their transports.

My sisters - the Order of the Lavender Shroud are painted in a light purple with yellow accents, brass backpacks, black weapons, yellow clothes.

The Planetary Guard already have 2 formations painted (borrowed from my Vraksian Army). They did not exactly match the minis I am using for the rest of my Vraksians, and I had already painted them a reddish brown clothes with bright Blue armour and helmets to make them stand out. They just need re-basing with another grass colour.

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 Post subject: Re: Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave List ver 1.2.1
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:24 pm 
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I'd probably suggest splitting your hobby posts from the list development posts into separate threads.

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 Post subject: Re: Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave List ver 1.2.1
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:24 am 
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Jimmy, I finally found a photo website that has no ads or costs any money. Unfortunately the editing features and other features are limited. I have started a new topic in the 6mm painting forum and the link to it is below.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33178

I will keep all my photos for the army I am building for this Ministorum defence conclave list there.

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 Post subject: Re: Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave List ver 1.2.1
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:00 pm 
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SWEET Christmas. Yes good call

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 Post subject: Re: Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave List ver 1.2.1
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:12 am 
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The current list seems stable and ready for testing. If people want to start testing this list so I can fix the quirks/bugs and remedy anything that might be spammed tom make the list OP, then play a few games, test out a few combos and let me know how it goes.

I played a training game with a mate of mine at the Hall of Heroes today after the regular opponent Chris cancelled after I called him up. Anyway the training game was not really a proper game as I was teaching Mathew the rules as we went. I won 2-0 with ministorum vs Speed Freak Orks.

I helped him out a lot though, but some of his dice throws were really bad, others were surprisingly good.

List we played were

List 3 – 2995
Core - 1825
400 – Dominions – Palantine leading 4 Dominions, 1 Priest, 2 Repressors, Hunter.
300 – Exorcism – 1 x Hunter, 5 x Exorcist Tanks
350 – Repressors – Palantine leading 5 Repressors, 3 Rhinos, Hunter
225 – Redemption – Priest leading 10 x Redemptionists, mounted in Civilian vehicles
550 – Inquisitorial Warband – Cardinal leading Priest, 8 x Storm Troopers, 2 x Vulture Gunships, 4 x Valkyrie Transports [BTS]
Arbite Support - 900
200 – Arbitor Patrol – Proctor, 6 x Arbites, 3 x Rhinos
200 – Arbitor Patrol – Proctor, 6 x Arbites, 3 x Rhinos
200 – Intercepton Patrol – Proctor, 6 x Arbite Bikers
300 – Black Marias – 5 x Black Marias, 1 x Hunter
1/3 Allocation – 275
275 – Guardian Angel – 1 x Guardian Angel Light Jump Assault Titan

and

3000 point Ork Speed Freaks list.

470 – [BTS] Uge Blitz Brigade – 12 x Gun Wagons, 1 x Flakwagon, 1 x Nobz Warbike, 1 x Mekboy Speedsta, 1 x Mekboy Bad Ork Biker Unit
285 – Large Blitz Brigade – 8 x Deth Koptas, 1 x Flakwagon
250 – Large Blitz Brigade – 8 x Deth Koptas
335 – Forteress Mob – 2 x Gun Fortresses, Flakwagon
235 – Kult of Speed – 2 x Skorcha, 2 x Warbuggy, 4 x Ork Bikers, Flakwagon
270 – Warband – 3 x Boyz, 4 x Trukks, 1 x Nobz, 1 x Nobz Biker, 2 x Skorchas, 2 x Warbuggys, 1 x Flakwagon
270 – Warband – 3 x Boyz, 4 x Trukks, 2 x Nobz Bikers, 2 x Skorchas, 2 x Warbuggys, 1 x Flakwagon
150 – Outriders (Garrison Scout) – 5 x Ork Bikers with Scout
150 – Outriders (Garrison Scout) – 5 x Ork Bikers with Scout
150 – Fighta Bomber Sqwadron – 3 x Ork Fighta Bombers
150 – Fighta Bomber Sqwadron – 3 x Ork Fighta Bombers
150 – Fighta Bomber Sqwadron – 3 x Ork Fighta Bombers
150 – Fighta Bomber Sqwadron – 3 x Ork Fighta Bombers


The orks destroyed the Guardian Angel, the Dominions, and reduced the Inquisitorial warband to just above half strength. Some other formations were also reduced in numbers, but not enough to force morale checks.

The orks lost their Uge Blitz Brigade, their Fortress mob, and one of their Outrider scout bike mobs as well as one of the dethkopta blitz mobs.. They also had a lot of their air cover reduced in strength.

It was close. and he could have forced it down to 1-0 with kill points determining the winner, but I mad a lot of good saves for the retributors who passed their faithful test 2 out of 3 turns and had some lucky 6+ invul saves.

I did 2 combined assaults led by my Cardinal, and another clipping assault with my Guardian angel titan and 2 formations I had set up in previous moves that turn. It did leave the Titan with only 1DC left, and it was killed off by an Ork warband in his next activation. He did a couple of moves that forced me to rethink my tactics in order to stop him moving to deny objectives to me, so the game was very interesting.

I won with BTS, and DTF.

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 Post subject: Re: Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave List ver 1.2.1
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:03 pm 
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As for the Guardian Angle, you could name it Penitent Titan (larger brethren to the Engines), power saws with TK ability and heavy flame cannons or mega blasters, with walker and jump DC3, VS2

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 Post subject: Re: Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave List ver 1.2.1
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:36 am 
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Sounds like an idea. I am currently using a modified Sanguinary Guard mini. The Blood Angels Elite Jump assault forces with winged jump packs. My mini had already had the head converted for my Nightlords army, and I got rid of all the Blood Angels bits. I replaced the Bat winged head with standard Mk VIII SM helmet., and the sword which had broken was replaced by a Greater daemon of Slaanesh's Sword (well Lamasti the Pleasure daemon from Mearce minis sword actually).

I was hoping the titan would represent an angel of Death sent by the Emperor for protection of the Pious and to destroy the unbelievers invading their planet. There are not really many minis out there that have winged jump packs that look angelic and carry nice/nasty looking weapons. Many of them just look like a suit of power armour, while I was trying to go for the appearance of a war engine. The sanguinary guard would have been perfect had I saved the helmet with the faceplate.

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 Post subject: Re: Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave List ver 1.2.1
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:35 am 
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How does a Repentant Titan. Perhaps the Mechanicum pilots are those that believe in the Emperor as both a god and the machine god, and believe they have brought shame upon their lineage, and have been relegated to the Ministorum's arm of the Titan Legion's Corps. These Titans are smaller lighter, and designed to bring justice, the light of the Emperor, and a swift death to those that oppose the Emperor of Mankind.

Perhaps the term of their service is to pilot the Repentant Titan until they either die bravely in battle or bring honour to their lineage's name by destroying a mighty enemy in battle. I could put a Paired Heavy Flamer on the Sword/Buzzsaw/Flail arm of the Titan.

I am still looking at testing it, however it has performed only adequately against a Marine Drop assault army, and was destroyed by the concentrated fire of 3 enemy formations, and finally killed off in battle when the enemy used the survivors from a Land speeder formation with other formations to support it, to kill off the Titan. I won the engagement, but the Titan was lost from his Land Speeders FF MW attacks. They were in base contact with the Titan, forcing it to use its FF.

I would be interested if others would test my army and provide battle reports and feedback.

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