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Epic Rebellion - You Will Be Destroyed!

 Post subject: Epic Rebellion - You Will Be Destroyed!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 8:46 pm 
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Hi guys,

Well, I have some downtime at work today as well as in my personal life (don't know how long this will last!) so for the hell of it I started working on that Epic Rebellion ruleset that I mentioned so long ago. I know there are many hybrids of Epic going around, and I am not saying mine is any more special than anyone elses, but I wanted to give it a shot, so here I go.

- I am writing it up in MS Word and will upload it to my site and give you guys a link here in the event you want to check it out. I have been thinking about some interesting concepts (well, at least to me ??? ...) and are curious to see how it all adds up.

- I came up with an idea but then realized Warhammer Fantasy beat me too it. I really like each of the Epic systems for different reasons, but I'll be the first to admit that while I love the detail of AT/SM, it isn't much fun for large games. I liked Epic-40k and Epic-A for large games, but still feels like there is some level of detail missing.

- Sooo... I decided to come up with two slightly different rulesets:
1. One for normal battles and...
2. One for skirmish games involving 25-35 miniatures on each side. ?

- The rules for the units themselves won't be different, but what you can do with them in each version will be.

- Let's be honest, we say Epic is about massive battles but are they?

- 40-60 units isn't that big, what is that a few companies?

- So I don't want to try to make a game that should be played with counters on a map. I want this to be just like to see it on the board with little abstraction as possible. I also want it to be played in about two hoursfor a good sized game. My days of playing for 4-5 hours are really over.

- Anyway, I am at work now so I can't upload to my server, but here are some more tidbits of what I am writing out at the moment. Keep in mind that most of the rules I am 'borrowing,' but several others I have come up on my own (if I have borrowed those too, I didn't know they had predecessors out there).

- ** Infantry, Cavalry, Light Vehicles, some types of Artillery, and most Characters are referred to as ?Soft Targets?, while Armored Vehicles and War Machines are known as ?Hard? Targets. Soft targets are usually easier to destroy with some weapons, yet may be harder to target with larger ones.

- (I know, it looks a lot like Epic-A, but is actually closer to AT/SM. A missile launcher will have a to hit roll for soft targets and hard targets, as well have a saving throw modifer for each. The weapon stats will be included with the unit's stats, not on a separate weapon chart.)

- ** Most units are grouped together with similar units to form a detachment. Each unit in a detachment must remain within 6cm of another unit within the same detachment to form a line of communication. Units that are separated further than 6cm become stragglers. In some cases, a unit may become separated from the rest its detachment by more than 6cm because of losses or another event. During the detachments move, the units may attempt to reform and reconnect the 6cm communications chain.

- At other times, the main body may be pressing towards an objective leaving a unit out of the 6cm link. In this case the unit becomes a straggler, and cannot do anything but move towards its detachment in the end phase. It cannot fire at other units and cannot charge into close combat (although it can be charged itself).

- ** When a player chooses one of his detachments to fire, he may have each of his units fire at any target that is in range and that the firer has LOS to. Units may fire individual weapons at different targets, so a Space Marine Tactical Unit may fire it?s Bolters at an Ork Boyz Unit and its' Missile Launcher at an Ork Battlewagon (I might limit this to the skirmish rules).

- Most units in Epic-Rebellion do not have fire arcs. It is assumed that each turn has enough ?real time? to move about, turn turrets, or face a new direction. War Engines do have fire arcs however, and their weapon descriptions will state which direction their weapon batteries can face.

- That's all for now, I actually have to go back to work. Anyway, thoughts on whatever I am doing is appreciated, and I'll post what I have got shortly and maybe we can do it all together. ?

See ya.

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 Post subject: Epic Rebellion - You Will Be Destroyed!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 9:18 pm 
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Hi!

I may have mentioned this before, but take a look at  the Heresy II rules (if your not on the net epic list I can send them to you), you share some design philosophies behind it.

It was designed for larger games with abstraction and dtail where it was thought needed.

I'm always game for new systems, let me see what you got and I'll give constructive opinons on it.

You did start in the right place though, the laying down of the guiding principals behind your game design is the way to go. You need a clear goal before you can reach it.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Epic Rebellion - You Will Be Destroyed!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 2:53 am 
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Gandalf,

It looks good so far! :;):

I agree with Peter that looking at his Heresy II game would be a good idea.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

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 Post subject: Epic Rebellion - You Will Be Destroyed!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:56 pm 
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I transfered over another Gandalf message.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

--------------------------------

I forgot to bring up how much I liked what Epic-40k tried to do with assaults. Assaults in Epic-40k could get annoying and take time to resolve, but the notion that you could still win the fight (cause more casualties) and still be forced to retreat was brilliant. You couldn't do that in the previous editions. ?

I think Morale in AT/SM is useless, and only comes into play when the captain gets killed that I can remember. I liked the panic rules though.

I didn't like how every race had a generic level of morale where all they had to do was beat the number of blast markers. It does assume that everyone is a badass, but I liked SM-2/TL where you could really judge how much of a beating a detachment could take and how it would mostly likely react.

Which do I think is more realistic?

Probably Epic-40k, but SM-2/TL was a little more fun.

It is little things like this and randomly rolling leadership in BFG really brings shows the genius in some of the things Jervis and Andy come up with, but at the same time I still think we come up with great ideas ourselves.

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 Post subject: Epic Rebellion - You Will Be Destroyed!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 10:44 pm 
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Hi!

I have always been a proponent of fan-based material (not that it's a shock to anyone! ?:p ).

I think that fans are more capable of ironing out the details and problems of a ruleset or making one themselves if they are enough inclined to do so. It only makes sense since we do it in our leisure time and can concentrate on it fully, which is a luxury a professional designer doesn't have (It's his job after all and he has bills too.).

Before attempting to design anything, it's a good idea to list what you want the game to do, overall, and what is the desired effect the mechanics "should have."

The next step is to list individual items for the mechanics:

1. Die type, seems trivial, but it has a HUGE impact on design and the ease in with certain problems can be met design-wise.

2. Unit activation or "group activation", alternating or "UgoIgo".

3. Impact of morale, not so much, impacts all levels of play.

4. Basic stats (move, armor, shooting, etc.).

5. Game sequence (how does the turn flow).

6. Firing resolution, the actual game mechanic to fire and adjudicate damage (pretty important).

7. Close combat resolution (pretty important too).

8. C-in-C, if any how to mesh it with other components?

Those are the top points I can remember. It's daunting at first, but it takes things slowly, one at a time. No order is crucial. For example, I came up with the mechanics for firing and close combat before I even thought about game sequence and other things.

You WILL make compromises. If you think you can get exactly get a certain way of things working that is 100% true to your vision. You will need to make trade-offs to make it all work.

The BIGGEST advice I will give you is that your design isn't done until it stands the weight of scrutiny. People will poke holes through your design with ease, stuff you NEVER realized will suddenly become obvious. Don't take it personally, this is natural. But remember this scrutiny will make your game BETTER, much better than your input alone. After this have people playtest it, not YOU, others. Why? You're too close to the creative process to be entirely objective.

I immensely enjoy people pointing out flaws in any idea or game mechanic I propose, in my experience, it's made those ideas infinitely better than my original ones.

Primarch.

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