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Adeptus Titanicus Rules?

 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus Rules?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:47 pm 
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Yeah I guess I have to admit we did use some house rules for SM1, such as using the SM2 of the loser off CC dying with no saving throw. And the game did evolve between the time AT came out and the WDs that were released during its time.

I have so many fond memories of undividual units doing so much from blunders to some pretty heroic stuff that is completely lost in Epic 40k and Epic A. I know the counter argument is that those games were trying to eliminate that kind of stuff, but I missed it.

I'll never forget the couple of leftover tactical stands in a building and their rhinos down below over-watching a bridge and when my friend sent his Bonecrunchas and Boyz over, they miraculously held off their advance. Back then Rhinos meant something and I was just never able to capture more events like that in the later systems. Sure there was a great shot here and there, but to look down at a few minis and be able to recognize how they beat the odds, not like in the old days.


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus Rules?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:53 pm 
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primarch wrote:
Hi!

Those will be a base, but will be redone to include the updated concepts introduced.

Primarch

Sounds good P ! :spin

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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus Rules?
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 12:45 am 
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Hopefully things like PD weapons would be kept. On the key failings of 2nd edition was range lengths.

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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus Rules?
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 2:22 am 
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What do you mean?


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus Rules?
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 5:47 am 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
Hopefully things like PD weapons would be kept. On the key failings of 2nd edition was range lengths.


Hi!

Correct. SM2 ranges were way too high and enabled the "turtle game", where you didn't need to move much and spent the majority of the game on first fire orders.

We sticking with the much shorter ranges of SM1 as well as the split ranges (with a penalty when firing over the splits), thus making movement and maneuver key.

That was one "streamlining" that didn't do SM2 any favors.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus Rules?
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 5:48 am 
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KTG17 wrote:
What do you mean?


Hi!

See above. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus Rules?
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 1:32 pm 
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SM2's no Saves for many units was an exercise in futility, that it took longer to put units on the table, then to rapidly take them off. Again, plays into GW's concept of designing a game that required you buy a lot of models. Only reinforced by many of the Infantry boxes containing 2,3,4 races. :eh

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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus Rules?
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 2:51 am 
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Yeah some weapons did have some pretty long ranges, but honestly I would rather have it that way than the 15/30/45 of Epic 40k for example. At those ranges it's like everyone is shooting muskets.

A Tactical stand in SM2 had a range of 50cm, which is fine. But in SM1, its equivalent had bolt guns with a range of 24, and a missile launcher with a range of 72, which I also think is cool.

Both systems had some slow units, but SM1 definately had some slow units. That kind of causes turtling too. But terrain plays a factor too. If you have a ton of open ground, then now one is going to move from the safety of cover.

But in all honesty, I am okay with that. That's how combat tends to be (given the scale of these units). In real combat you aren't going to have units running all over the battlefield in the open like some other games allow, where they seem like they are teleporting and the opposing forces just watch. Sometimes units camp, but if you provide enough terrain to break up long range line of sights, then that will encourage more movement.




primarch wrote:
jimmyzimms wrote:
Hopefully things like PD weapons would be kept. On the key failings of 2nd edition was range lengths.


Hi!

Correct. SM2 ranges were way too high and enabled the "turtle game", where you didn't need to move much and spent the majority of the game on first fire orders.

We sticking with the much shorter ranges of SM1 as well as the split ranges (with a penalty when firing over the splits), thus making movement and maneuver key.

That was one "streamlining" that didn't do SM2 any favors.

Primarch


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus Rules?
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 2:32 pm 
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SM1 ranges were better IMO, if for no other reason they seemed "more realistic" ... now I know some will say, "well it's Sci-fi" ... So in the future weapons will have shorter ranges ? :eh Of course, the 40k Uni is has a lot of Close Combat weapons, which again IMO is ... well ... just ... ah ... silly ... er ... dumb ? :o

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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus Rules?
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 2:44 pm 
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You'd be making the assumption, incorrectly I might add as mentioned by the designers, that the models are literal scale representations relative to each other and to range (time scale as well but that's another can of worms best left unsaid as well :) ). Also you of all people L4 know where 98% of downrange fire goes towards :) (and for those unclear, it's generally NOT to kill the enemy). Think of any war movie with at least modernish firearms out there (I don't care what. From Saving Private Ryan, Blackhawk Down, Beaufort, all the way to something like the planetary invasion scene in Chronicles of Riddick). See all those troops and shooting and moving around? That's probably one small attack in an epic (any version) with a few dice rolled at best. That's not the designated marksman placing a well aimed shot at theoretical max effective range. It's hundreds and perhaps thousands of rounds fired, armour putting metal on metal, CQB, supressive fire, etc.

What's silly in this game is why huge armies are duking it out to start with, at least in most of these scenarios we're playing. When you've got orbital superiority something like an army is a big fat target. At least Frank Herbert came up with a logically consistent and "plausible" cause and effect as to why that type of thing requires direct wet work.

Also it's good to point out that "open" terrain in epic isn't "flat area completely devoid of any cover". Just that it's statistically insignificant cover to cause troubles in visibility and long range sustained fire. Look outside the window right now. Probably a large amount of what you'd see around could be considered "open" in epic.

L4's completely correct that opportunity fire is somewhat lacking in representation in epic rulesets.

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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus Rules?
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 4:25 pm 
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Thank you for telling somethings I already know ... :P Snap Fire is Op Fire in SM1. We included a rule from a AH Game, Panzer Leader. A until must expend 1/4 of it's movement in units on Snap Fire LOS.

For units like grav AFVs or Helos/gunships, Land Speeders, Jet Bikes, even Chaos Flying Discs, etc., with "Pop-up" abilities ... They Pop--up (from behind cover like a modern helos), and fire. If there is an enemy unit on Snap Fire in range, then they can return fire. After the "Pop-Up" fires. Then the Pop-Up goes back down behind it's cover. If it is not DE'd. Once a model Snap Fires you note it with a maker as "fired".

We added unit "Activation" with SM1 based upon a rule I saw on an old AH game "Tobruk" ...

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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus Rules?
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 4:30 pm 
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YES!!!!!! the PL leader, and by extension AIW, op fire rules were THE best done so far. The 1/4 movement was especially well done (you can move in the open, but only for so long, before someone's going to take aim. SO GOOD. We should totally get some vassal games of that going soon, man!

Didn't the 40k Compendium (repreints of the WD articles) have the optional rule with the same mechanics in the old RT days? Been a long while...

I could have sworn that snap fire was in 2nd, not 1st but admittedly I'm getting old and senile :D

(and incidentally, that's not directed at you, I know You know that ! ;D just most people don't, probably due to hollywood die hard type movies)

Have we ever stopped to consider that the entire movie Predator is one engagement in Epic (with some serious hackdowns) and then a series of clipping attacks? hahaha! ;D

Edit: Oh shit L4, if anyone knows (or more likely actually has these), do you got the bead on anyone with a line of 6mm Yautja?

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Last edited by jimmyzimms on Mon May 02, 2016 4:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus Rules?
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 4:39 pm 
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Don't know about the 40K compendium ? But yes, Snap Fire was in SM1, I remember it fondly. I have all the Epic rules in my Black Library, 4 feet from my PC in my Home Office/Work Shop/War Room ... ^-^

Yes, I know many [Sci-fi] gamers are not Vets or don't understand military history, tactics, etc. ... But that's OK ... one can still game and enjoy it.

As far as 6mm Predator Aliens ... GZG did make some ... I have them ... I'm going to use them as GS Hybrids ... let me see if I can find a pic ... Here's a poor pic I have ... rear shot ... Next to a GZG "Alien", I'll use as ... wait for it ... Genestealers ! Image

Here's a 10mm Pred I got from Pendraken ... They make good Chaos Ogryn ... The one on the right is when he has his "cloaking device" on ... Image

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Last edited by Legion 4 on Mon May 02, 2016 5:09 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus Rules?
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 4:41 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus Rules?
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 5:07 pm 
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And yes ... there will be no fighting in the "War Room" ! ^-^

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