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The Orks need your help

 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 4:04 am 
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Seriously. The Ork fleets are a joke. Perhaps even more than the Dark Eldar, and thats saying something. I have never seen anyone even attempt to throw out some Ork fleet revisions, so lets try and change that.

Heres something to start it off:

Looted Vessels:
In an Ork Fleet, a Warlord may take a captured vessel as his personal Flagship. This ship may be any Imperial, Chaos, or Tau cruiser. The ship has the following changes:
+2 Hits
-5cm Speed
-1 Shield
-1 LD
Always at half dice for damage control
Lances, Ion Cannons and Nova Cannon work as normal, but if they are ever taken offline, they cannot be repaired.
Weapons Batteries are replaced with gunz at the following rate:
1=1
2=2
3=3
4=D6
5=D6+1
6=D6+2
(Example: A Repulsive[WB14] would have 2D6+6 [(D6+2)+(D6+2)+(2)])
Torpedo/Gravtic Launcher Strengths are replaced at the same rate.
The ship costs the same amount of points, and must have a Warlord as captain.





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 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:00 pm 
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Well I've always thought that the rules for Heavy Gunz were somewhat pointless. I think that they should follow similar rules to Space Marine Bombardment Cannon, IE weapons batteries that always hit armour on a 4+. Perhaps still ignore the positive modifier for being within 15cm.

Of course the amount of Heavy Gunz / points values of the ships carrying them would have to be re-worked.


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 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:24 pm 
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The Orkz have some realy poo vessels. The TerrorShip comes to mind... 185pts n its no better than an Cruiser.
Wat I find the biggest handicap with Orkz is the very restrictive fleet rulez. They restict u from taking any BattleKroozerz or BattleShips unless u take a heap of overpriced smaller ships with them.
The 'Amma Class BattleKroozer is a pretty good vessel, but the rules treat it as a BattleShip. If it could be taken in the same way as the KillKroozer n TerrorShip that would help some.

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 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:07 am 
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An idea I had to make Ork vessels more powerful while retaining their Orkyness was to make the shields and turrets random. So the first time each turn a vessel is fired upon or attacked by AC, you woud roll to see how many shields/turrets you get. I suggest the following values:

Escorts: 1 shield/turret
Kill Krooza/Terror Ships/Roks: D3 shields/turrets
Battleships: D6 shields/turrets
Space Hulk: 2D3 shields/turrets

The effect of Extra Powerfields woul change from adding one shield to allowing a reroll of the dice. A new warlord upgrade could have a similar effect on turrets.

The only unfluffy thing about this is that Orks love gunz, so in reality, they would probably actually be VERY hard to attack with AC. Maybe add 1 base turret before adding the random number would be a good idea.

I feel this is a pretty good representation of how an Ork ship would be, and is no more dice-intensive a solution to represent orkyness than to have to roll for gunz/torps/AC each time you fire/launch them.

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 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:27 pm 
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Randomly rolling for turrets and shields? Much as it sounds like an interesting idea, I feel that this would add unnecessarily to the book-keeping of the game.


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 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:31 pm 
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Maybe not everytime a vessel is under attack, but before the battle these things are determined.

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 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:17 pm 
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I don't see how this is any worse than rolling for your gunz each time you fire them. Besides, you only have to roll when you come under attack.

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 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 6:40 pm 
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Neat idea


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 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 6:53 pm 
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Anyone used the MekBoy DefShip? Ive used it a few times and found it to be a bit hit-n-miss but loadza fun :;):
I followed the fluff n used a TerrorShip to make mine.
Therez a few good unoffical Ork vessels that should be made offical IMO

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 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:13 pm 
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Quote (VanDoo @ 29 Nov. 2005 (15:17))
I don't see how this is any worse than rolling for your gunz each time you fire them. Besides, you only have to roll when you come under attack.

Because you don't have to note down how many guns which ship has once you have rolled them - it's just a system that increases the randomness of Ork firing in the best traditions of the 40k universe, in exchange for slightly more dice rolling. It does not increase book-keeping. Random shields and turrets does.

As I said, interesting idea but with a definate disadvantage. I foresee a lot of confusion as to which ships have which shields/turrets for those who don't keep such neat records ( not that I'm stereotyping Ork players as such :;): )

EDIT : Great work on the ship as usual, Krooza. And thank you for having that avatar - it cheers me up each and every time I see it :8): .






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 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:14 pm 
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Thanx.
Im not a rulez Guru but the sudjested powerfield tweek sounds like a good idea. May play test it myself at some point.
Personly Id like all Ork Vesselz to have DefShip powerfieldz :alien:
Had the Av for ages. A guy over on the Waaagh animated it for me. ?:;): Oh.. and I dont love Lootaz... they're weedy :80:

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 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:35 pm 
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On the turret point, how about this?

Dakkadakkadakka!
-----------------
Orks love dakka. Their ships are festooned with guns of all shapes and sizes. To represent this, Orks do not have standard turrets. Instead, they get a saving throw against any piece of ordnance attacking an Ork ship. (So an Ork ship would have, for example, 4+sv in the Turrets column). For suppressing bomber attacks, treat the Ork ship as having turrets equal to the amount of dice faces the save will work for (theres gotta be a better way to word that, but basically a 6+sv would have one, a 5+ 2, and so on.) If a ship is crippled, its save has a -1 penalty. If a piece of Ordnance is hit by turrets on a 6, the save has a -1 penalty against it.

A key thing to note here is that the roll is per attack craft marker. So against a 2 fighter/2 bomber wave, I may only get two hits. But if both of them are on the Bombers, I'm in pretty good shape.

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 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:54 pm 
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First off: Magus: love the sig. :8):

@Shinnetai: You have a point. So how about this: for shields, you roll each time you come under attack and substract one to the result per Blast Marker in base countact. VOILA! No more book keeping! The BMs do it for you!

I think rolling for turrets each time you get under attack would work too. I think the save idea just might be a tad too powerfull.

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 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:42 am 
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Thinking about it, I really like that shielding system, assuming I understand it. Heres how I see it:

We have a Gothic, Dominator, and some Ork Krooza.
The Gothic fires a full broadside at the Krooza for 2 hits. The Ork ship rolls for shields.. a 1. One blast marker is placed, the ship takes one damage.

The Dominator comes about and unleashes its broadside, scoring 4 hits. The Krooza rolls for shields, a 4. Since one blast marker is in contact, 3 more are placed and the ship takes one more point of damage.

Should give lots of weird orky results, such as shields already strained reaching up with a 6 to stop another attack, and the occasional roll of 1. I'm not sure what a good amount to roll for would be though... Perhaps 1 Shield flat for Escorts, D3 for Cruisers and D6+1 for Battleships...

One question though: When is the shield roll made? Before or after the ship decides whether to BFI?



On the turret-save, it basically makes a ship better against large waves/salvos and worse against small waves/salvos compared to a normal turret-based ship. I think that fits da orks. Random turrets per wave/salvo could also work, but you might end up rolling many, many dice for an ordnance phase (the shields though can be overloaded if the BMs equal the maximum possible roll, reducing the rolls needed for a huge set of attacks)

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 Post subject: The Orks need your help
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:04 pm 
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Magus: you got it right. As for how many potential shields a ship can get, I posted some values on the first page of this thread. As for your question, I think BFI should be rolled BEFORE you see how many shields you get. Think about it: first, they are Orks, so doin' somefin' humie-like like "bracin' fer impakt" would be somewhat out of character. Second, logically, the Orks would not know before hand wether their shields would hold under the enemy barrage in the first place, so they would either get the order to brace in case they don't, or play their luck and hope everything holds together.

As for the turrets, well, when you stop to think about it, it doesn't make much sense that they would actually be better (relatively speaking) against large waves than against small waves. Plus, the fighter suppression rule becomes more complicated. Just my two cents, anyways.

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